Confessing Christ

[heresyhunter]

Hey everyone. I've lately been stumped by an argument I recently heard a gentleman put forth in a debate. In a nutshell, it goes like this:

Premise 1: If a man confesses that Jesus is Lord, that man will be saved.

Premise 2: All men will confess that Jesus is Lord.

Conclusion: All men will be saved.

In terms of formal logic, this is a valid syllogism: If the premises are true, the conclusion neccessarily follows.

But are the premises true? In support of the first premise, the gentleman cited Romans 10:9, which reads, "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."

In support of Premise 2, he cited Phillippians 2:11, which reads, "And [that] every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ [is] Lord, to the glory of God the Father."

I admittedly am having a hard time refuting this argument. I have considered a few counter-arguments, but they seem rather weak to me. I am hoping that perhaps some fo you here can help me refute out.

-HH

[EricH]

Romans actually includes more than confession in what is required for salvation. It says:

If you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

(Romans 10:9 CSB)

Paul then goes on to describe the process that will result is salvation:

With the heart one believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth one confesses, resulting in salvation.

(Romans 10:10 CSB)

According to Paul a confession that saves comes from a heart that is transformed by the Holy Spirit.

The passage in Philippians is not addressing the topic of salvation. It is addressing Jesus' rulership over all creation. Paul says that as a result of Jesus becoming a servant and humbling Himself God the Father...

...highly exalted Him and gave Him the name that is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow-- of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth-- and every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. (Philippians 2:9-11 HCSB)

So the irony is that some folks will profess Jesus as Lord as a result of a changed heart (resulting in their salvation). Others will profess him as Lord simply because God has given Him a name that is above all names. So it is not the profession alone that saves. It a profession that is motivated by belief. Paul says something interesting immediately after this in Philippians:

So then, my dear friends, just as you have always obeyed, not only in my presence, but now even more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. (Philippians 2:12 CSB)

People should not rest in what they say about Jesus as a proof that they are saved. That is because everyone will eventually confess HIm to be Lord (both the saved and unsaved). Salvation comes from a heart that is changed by belief, and a confession that comes from that changed heart. So Paul tells us to work out or salvation (i.e. check our hearts out to make sure they are changed)

[heresyhunter]

Romans actually includes more than confession in what is required for salvation. It says:

If you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

(Romans 10:9 CSB)

Paul then goes on to describe the process that will result is salvation:

With the heart one believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth one confesses, resulting in salvation.

(Romans 10:10 CSB)

According to Paul a confession that saves comes from a heart that is transformed by the Holy Spirit.

The passage in Philippians is not adressing the topic of salvation. It is addressing Jesus' rulership over all creation. Paul says that as a result of jesus becoming a servant and Himself God the Father...

...highly exalted Him and gave Him the name that is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow-- of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth-- and every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. (Philippians 2:9-11 HCSB)

So the ironly is that some folks will profess Jesus as Lord as a result of a changed heart. Others will profess him as Lord simply because God has given Him a name that is above all names. So it is not the profession that saves. It is the chaned heart that makes the profession possible. Paul says something interesting immediately after this in Philippians:

So then, my dear friends, just as you have always obeyed, not only in my presence, but now even more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. (Philippians 2:12 CSB)

People should not rest in what they say about Jesus as a proof that they are saved. That is because everyone will eventually confess HIm to be Lord (both the saved and unsaved). Salvation comes from a heart that is changed by belief, and a cofession that comes from that changed hearts. So Paul tells us to work out or salvation (i.e. check our hearts out to make sure they are changed)

Thanks for the reply, Eric.

What about 1 Corinthians 12:3?

"Therefore I tell you that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus be cursed," and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit."

Does this mean that confessing Christ neccessarily involves a changed heart?

[EricH]

Romans actually includes more than confession in what is required for salvation. It says:

If you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

(Romans 10:9 CSB)

Paul then goes on to describe the process that will result is salvation:

With the heart one believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth one confesses, resulting in salvation.

(Romans 10:10 CSB)

According to Paul a confession that saves comes from a heart that is transformed by the Holy Spirit.

The passage in Philippians is not adressing the topic of salvation. It is addressing Jesus' rulership over all creation. Paul says that as a result of jesus becoming a servant and Himself God the Father...

...highly exalted Him and gave Him the name that is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow-- of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth-- and every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. (Philippians 2:9-11 HCSB)

So the ironly is that some folks will profess Jesus as Lord as a result of a changed heart. Others will profess him as Lord simply because God has given Him a name that is above all names. So it is not the profession that saves. It is the chaned heart that makes the profession possible. Paul says something interesting immediately after this in Philippians:

So then, my dear friends, just as you have always obeyed, not only in my presence, but now even more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. (Philippians 2:12 CSB)

People should not rest in what they say about Jesus as a proof that they are saved. That is because everyone will eventually confess HIm to be Lord (both the saved and unsaved). Salvation comes from a heart that is changed by belief, and a cofession that comes from that changed hearts. So Paul tells us to work out or salvation (i.e. check our hearts out to make sure they are changed)

Thanks for the reply, Eric.

What about 1 Corinthians 12:3?

"Therefore I tell you that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus be cursed," and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit."

Does this mean that confessing Christ neccessarily involves a changed heart?

I think it is an absolutely true statement. Know one can come to the conclusion that Jesus is Lord unless God reveals it to them. For the person who is saved this occurs as the Holy Spirit changes their heart through belief. For the unsaved, the Holy Spirit will one day show this to the whole world (not by changing their hearts, but by showing them HIs true nature as God).

[heresyhunter]

I think it is an absolutely true statement. Know one can come to the conclusion that Jesus is Lord unless God reveals it to them. For the person who is saved this occurs as the Holy Spirit changes their heart through belief. For the unsaved, the Holy Spirit will one day show this to the whole world (not by changing their hearts, but by showing them HIs true nature as God).

Hmmm.

Can you perhaps put in your own words what you think 1 Corinthians 12:3 is saying?

It seems to me that that verse is saying that confessing Christ is the opposite of cursing Christ, and that the former is a holy act whereas the latter is an evil act. Would you agree?

[heresyhunter]

EricH,

"With the heart one believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth one confesses, resulting in salvation."

I wonder if this isn't an example or a synonymous parallelism. Seeing that righteousness and salvation are inseparable, perhaps belief and confession are also inseparable?

Also, have you done a study on the Greek words translated as 'confess' (homologeo/ exomologeo, exomologeomai) as they appear throughout the New Testament? The gentleman I mentioned earlier made the claim that these words always have connotations of heartfelt confession/praise everywhere in the Bible except for one or two verses where, he claims, context makes clear that the ordinary meaning is not in view. I have not gotten a chance to do an in-depth study on these words, but hope to be able to do so soon - perhaps tonight.

[nebula]

One thing we need to keep in mind - we are only given a small glimpse into those things which are to be...whether after death or with regards to life after Jesus' return.

The "every knee shall bow" most likely refers to such a time.

We can get all worked up about the applications of such glimpses, and we can create doctrine and even denominations over such issues. But the bottom line is that no matter what you believe the outcome to be, we are still bound to devote ourselves to the Lord, preach the Gospel, and make disciples.

[Rick-Parker]

Some will bow to the Lord, profess and obey Him as such while here on Earth; others will bow to the Lord and profess Him as such at the Judgment Seat. But all will bow. Those who bow, profess and obey Him on Earth will be with the Father in Heaven; those who do not will be forever separated from Him in Hell.

[EricH]

I think it is an absolutely true statement. Know one can come to the conclusion that Jesus is Lord unless God reveals it to them. For the person who is saved this occurs as the Holy Spirit changes their heart through belief. For the unsaved, the Holy Spirit will one day show this to the whole world (not by changing their hearts, but by showing them HIs true nature as God).

Hmmm.

Can you perhaps put in your own words what you think 1 Corinthians 12:3 is saying?

It seems to me that that verse is saying that confessing Christ is the opposite of cursing Christ, and that the former is a holy act whereas the latter is an evil act. Would you agree?

The passage in Corinthians is dealing with a different topic all together. The context here is spiritual gifts. Some in the church at Corinth had come to believe that the presense of the Spirit in a person's life was evidenced by the possession of certain spiritual gifts. They believed that some in the church were more spiritual by virtue of the the gifts they had been given. 1 Corinthinas 12:1-3 is an introduction to Paul's discussion of the gifts. He begins as follows:

About matters of the spirit: brothers, I do not want you to be unaware. You know how, when you were pagans, you were led to dumb idols-- being led astray. Therefore I am informing you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus is cursed," and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit. (1Corinthians 12:1-3 CSB)

Paul first speaks of those who came from a pagan background. The imagry of being led to dumb (silent) idols would have been very vivid to his readers. In Greek cities like Corinth, it was very common for those who worshipped the gods to engage in the pompe. This was a cultic festival in which participants would follow a sacred route to the sanctuary where the images of the various gods were kept. This was a normal part of the cultic year. Others in the church came from a back ground where Jesus was viewed as cursed, because He had been crucified. This would have applied to those who came from a Jewish background mostly. All of them, whether they came from the pagan world, or the Jewish world were not being led by the Spirit. However, it was the Spirit that enabled them to believe and make the common confession that Jesus is Lord. This was made possible only because it was revealed to them by the Holy Spirit. So all who came to Christ had the Spirit.

This is the core of Paul's argument. He is about to deal with their mistaken idea that the gifts were the only evidence of a person being spiritual. According to Paul, all believers are spiritual, because all have been led by the Spirit to make the confession of faith that Jesus is Lord. All possess the Spirit, because it is only by Him they they would have been able to believe in the first place.

[EricH]

EricH,

"With the heart one believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth one confesses, resulting in salvation."

I wonder if this isn't an example or a synonymous parallelism. Seeing that righteousness and salvation are inseparable, perhaps belief and confession are also inseparable?

Also, have you done a study on the Greek words translated as 'confess' (homologeo/ exomologeo, exomologeomai) as they appear throughout the New Testament? The gentleman I mentioned earlier made the claim that these words always have connotations of heartfelt confession/praise everywhere in the Bible except for one or two verses where, he claims, context makes clear that the ordinary meaning is not in view. I have not gotten a chance to do an in-depth study on these words, but hope to be able to do so soon - perhaps tonight.

Synonymous parallelism is typically a device utilized in Hebrew poetry. I don't think it is likely that is what is going on here. Especially because in verse 10 the 2 ideas are treated separately and not just restatements of the same concept