Confessing Christ

[Hunterpoet]

Romans 10:9 Thou(singular, addressing an individual), defining for him the necessary steps to salvation...confessing Christ Jesus as Lord and Savior, and by the power of God, raised from the dead. This verse also specifies that doing so saves the person.

Phil.2:11 every tongue...plural, everything that has a tongue, humans, angels, animals, demons, satan himself...will confess( acknowledge) that Christ Jesus is Lord of Lords and King of Kings, to the Glory( sheer delight) of the Father, because He said it would be so.

All the necessary steps to salvation are absent in Phil.2:11, which tells us that this verse is about something else and it fails to mention salvation which also tells us the verse is about something else.

The logical conclusion is that he is comparing apples to oranges.

[heresyhunter]

EricH,

I was able to set aside a couple hours to look into how the words homologeo/exomologeo/exomologeomai are used in the Bible.

Unless I goofed somewhere, it would seem that Paul only ever speaks of confession (whether homologeo, exomologeo or exomologeomai is used) in terms of genuine praise and thanksgiving and humility, and only ever uses it with the saved in mind (unless specifically noted otherwise (such as Titus 1:16).

Consider the following verses:

[heresyhunter]

EricH,

The passage in Corinthians is dealing with a different topic all together.

Yet, both passages speak of confessing Christ as Lord, so you can see why I quoted 1 Corinthians 12:3 with respect to Philippians 2:11.

However, it was the Spirit that enabled them to believe and make the common confession that Jesus is Lord. This was made possible only because it was revealed to them by the Holy Spirit. So all who came to Christ had the Spirit .... According to Paul, all believers are spiritual, because all have been led by the Spirit to make the confession of faith that Jesus is Lord. All possess the Spirit, because it is only by Him they they would have been able to believe in the first place.

So then, you are saying that 1 Corinthians 12:3 is speaking about those who possess the Spirit? If so, how does this not imply that all will one day possess the Spirit per Philippians 2:11?

[Guest]

All Will Hear

Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 5:28-29

All Will Kneel

Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Philippians 2:9-11

Most Will Suffer

Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Matthew 7:13-15

God's Wrath

And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Revelation 20:15

It's Jesus

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life:

John 3:36((a)

Or

and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

John 3:36(b)

Not

[heresyhunter]

Hunterpoet,

All the necessary steps to salvation are absent in Phil.2:11, which tells us that this verse is about something else and it fails to mention salvation which also tells us the verse is about something else

I'd be curious to see how you'd go about addressing the points I made concerning the meaning of the Greek words translated as 'confess' and the usage of said words in the Bible.

[Hunterpoet]

Hunterpoet,

All the necessary steps to salvation are absent in Phil.2:11, which tells us that this verse is about something else and it fails to mention salvation which also tells us the verse is about something else

I'd be curious to see how you'd go about addressing the points I made concerning the meaning of the Greek words translated as 'confess' and the usage of said words in the Bible.

I'm not a student of the Greek language used for the translation of the bible. However, it is my understanding that the Greek language used had few words so that one word would have different meanings. I'm told by those who are in the know that you must consider the intent of how the word is used, and that other clues, or the lack of them, in the verse are used to discover the proper intent.

The authors of the commentaries that I read seem to understand the Hebrew, Greek and Latin languages used in the translation of the bible and for the most part they are unanimous on the interpretaton of individual scripture. So I rely upon their writings and the Spirit to guide me.

Even in the english, I have found at least four different ways the word confess can be used..to acknowledge, to own or admit, to declare, to reveal. I'm thinking that however this word is used, the intent would only be discovered by the sentence and paragraph where it is used.

So, I'm able to understand that the word confess does not hold the same meaning and intent in the two verses cited.

[asper]

Romans actually includes more than confession in what is required for salvation. It says:

If you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

(Romans 10:9 CSB)

Paul then goes on to describe the process that will result is salvation:

With the heart one believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth one confesses, resulting in salvation.

(Romans 10:10 CSB)

According to Paul a confession that saves comes from a heart that is transformed by the Holy Spirit.

The passage in Philippians is not adressing the topic of salvation. It is addressing Jesus' rulership over all creation. Paul says that as a result of jesus becoming a servant and Himself God the Father...

...highly exalted Him and gave Him the name that is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow-- of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth-- and every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. (Philippians 2:9-11 HCSB)

So the ironly is that some folks will profess Jesus as Lord as a result of a changed heart. Others will profess him as Lord simply because God has given Him a name that is above all names. So it is not the profession that saves. It is the chaned heart that makes the profession possible. Paul says something interesting immediately after this in Philippians:

So then, my dear friends, just as you have always obeyed, not only in my presence, but now even more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. (Philippians 2:12 CSB)

People should not rest in what they say about Jesus as a proof that they are saved. That is because everyone will eventually confess HIm to be Lord (both the saved and unsaved). Salvation comes from a heart that is changed by belief, and a cofession that comes from that changed hearts. So Paul tells us to work out or salvation (i.e. check our hearts out to make sure they are changed)

Thanks for the reply, Eric.

What about 1 Corinthians 12:3?

"Therefore I tell you that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus be cursed," and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit."

Does this mean that confessing Christ neccessarily involves a changed heart?

hi hh.

I don't know who they are who brought this riddle up to you but it is pretty silly to think that just because someone has a couple of facts that they can come to a conclusion..

The facts must be correct and they must be able to properly interpret those facts. It is certainly dangerous to just have two.

Philippians 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Notice the word should confess. It is the subjunctive mood.

It is the mood of possibility and potentiality.

It does not say that they will.

Also they are not considering the rest of the facts.. I.e. the rest of the Bible. Or they would see that true intent of the heart is needed.

Matthew 15:8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

The other thing that is assumed was that someone who is caused to speak something is saved or even sincere. Is that really true? Do we have any evidence for that?

John 11:49 And one of them, named Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all,

50 Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.

51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;

52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.

53 Then from that day forth they took counsel together for to put him to death.

Edited July 28, 2009 by asper

[georgedrw81]

I'm not a student of the Greek language used for the translation of the bible. However, it is my understanding that the Greek language used had few words so that one word would have different meanings. I'm told by those who are in the know that you must consider the intent of how the word is used, and that other clues, or the lack of them, in the verse are used to discover the proper intent.

The authors of the commentaries that I read seem to understand the Hebrew, Greek and Latin languages used in the translation of the bible and for the most part they are unanimous on the interpretaton of individual scripture. So I rely upon their writings and the Spirit to guide me.

Even in the english, I have found at least four different ways the word confess can be used..to acknowledge, to own or admit, to declare, to reveal. I'm thinking that however this word is used, the intent would only be discovered by the sentence and paragraph where it is used.

So, I'm able to understand that the word confess does not hold the same meaning and intent in the two verses cited.

This is valid in any human language.When translations are made from one language to another it can change the meaning of the word or the sentence.When we read the Bible in any language and we accept God and Jesus the meaning of each word is made clear to us.

Blessings

[heresyhunter]

So, I'm able to understand that the word confess does not hold the same meaning and intent in the two verses cited.

Hmm, well every lexicon I've consulted lists genuine praise/thanksgiving and heartfelt confession as the primary meaning of these words. Moreover, I have checked how these words are used in the Bible and have found that virtually every place where these words are used, they make sense only if they carry the aforesaid positive connotations. I encourage you to do the same.

[heresyhunter]

apser,

You really ought to learn more Biblical Greek before making claims such as you have done.

Dr. Carl Conrad, who runs a Biblical Greek email list, had this to say about the issue:

I think that the point here is that the fulfilment of this clause (or these

clauses (hINA KAMYHI, hINA hOMOLOGHSHTAI) lies in the future. How one

translates a purpose clause depends fundamentally upon that. We could say,

"gave him a name such that every knee WOULD bow, every tongue WOULD confess

...", but in fact the fulfilment is envisioned as something for the

ESCATON, isn't it. Furthermore, the aorist subjunctive is rather common

with MH for commands (Smyth,