Mary's appearence at fatima

[jamie]

Just curious about all the appearances of Mary. Fatima isn't that mohamad's wife name?Why would Mary appear in a a town with that name?Why a shiite, aren't the young girls she appeared to shiites?

llCor. 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

[stevehut]

LadyC opposes anything that might differ from her opinion?

Nah, I don't think that is her issue.

[Guest LadyC]

serving...

i'll have to look up that passage you quoted, but if i recall correctly, Jesus had not yet been crucified.

elijah never died.

moses did.

they spoke with Jesus, not with peter, not with james, not with john, not with any other person who was simply mortal. Jesus was both man AND God. no reason why the dead can't communicate with Christ.

mary is alive in heaven as much as my father is. but she is dead in the flesh, and is forbidden to communicate with those who are still alive in the flesh. that does not in any way deny the power of the cross and Christ's resurrection. to the contrary, believing that mary is still intervening and communicating with people today absolutely detracts from the Gospel of Christ.

thank you steve, so shall we continue, even though LadyC opposes anything that might differ from her opinion?

you seem to have taken a personal dislike towards me. as for me opposing anything that differs from my opinion, you're wrong. i oppose anything that is contrary to scripture, and mary's perpetual virginity is very contrary. so this sounds like a case of the pot calling the kettle black...

apology accepted, but your words did speak very clearly of what you meant..after all, what comes out of the mouth is in the heart... Perhaps you should be careful how you speak to others...(Prov 13:3; James 1:26).

likewise.

LadyC, I BELIEVE that SHE WAS a perpetual Virgin, and according to historical Tradition AND even some DEVOUT believers (such as Martin Luther whom LED the entire PROTESTANT reform) I believe that there IS evidence that SHE MAY HAVE. As for my OPINION of whether she was or not makes no difference. TRUTH does NOT DEPEND on OPINION. Why should I SHAKE MY BELIEF? That is again very presumptuous and PRIDEFUL that anyone who believes something DIFFERENT than you AUTOMATICALLY has to change THEIR beliefs. I feel sorry for you.

don't feel sorry for me serving, the truth is in scripture, and scripture is very clear about Jesus having brothers and sisters.... not cousins. well he had cousins, too, but the ones referred to as his brothers and sisters were simply that. his brothers and sisters. read the passages in context both with the surrounding text and the remainder of scripture. by the way, the bible has a term for cousins. it's called.... "cousins". imagine that. in a broader sense, cousins, as well as friends, as well as any other believer, were sometimes called brothers. but when scripture discussed his brothers and his sisters and his mother, the context is very clear that it was not referring to cousins, friends, or fellow believers.

you seem totally unwilling to look up the other threads discussing this, and absolutely insistant that we keep this conversation off topic. i have nothing personal against you, never did, and do not believe that i implied so in my previous post despite the way you seem to have taken it. but i will not continue discuss anything with you, because your arguments do not line up with scripture nor do you want them to... and because i find it highly distracting from the origional topic to keep sidetracking to other areas of discussion. i've noticed this in another thread as well... it seems to be quite the thing lately for subjects to get off track, and requests to get back on topic, by me and by others, are continually ignored. and i'm guilty too, it's all too easy to respond to the off-topic comments and i will not continue to do so.

again, i encourage you to look up other threads where this has been covered, or start a new one. but i think this one deserves to be taken back to it's origional purpose.

[ServingHim]

Just curious about all the appearances of Mary. Fatima isn't that mohamad's wife name?Why would Mary appear in a  a town with that name?Why a shiite, aren't the young girls she appeared to shiites?  

llCor. 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

Moses & Eli'jah appeared before Peter, James & John? Were they in this same category? Why or WHY NOT?

[ServingHim]

i'll have to look up that passage you quoted, but if i recall correctly, Jesus had not yet been crucified.

yes, I've already corrected myself when John pointed that out to me...did you read that post yet?

elijah never died.

What man can live and never see death? Psalms 89:48 (RSV) I thought this scripture was interesting since it 'contradicts' what we're talking about.

But, yes you are correct. Eli'jah NEVER DIED and was bodily'assumed' into heaven in a fiery chariot (2 Kings 2:11-12) ... SO was Enoch also bodily assumed into heaven, never dying (Gen 5:24, Heb 11:5). Just curious your thought? Do you think that God would do any less for Mary, the Mother of His Only Begotten Son? Do you think HE COULD? I DO! He did it for Enoch & Eli'jah!

moses did.

Correct, Moses died.

they spoke with Jesus, not with peter, not with james, not with john, not with any other person who was simply mortal. Jesus was both man AND God. no reason why the dead can't communicate with Christ.

Yes they SPOKE with Jesus, but Peter, James AND John ALL heard them talking. Read again...

3 And behold, there appeared to them Moses and Eli'jah, talking with him. 4 And Peter said to Jesus, "Lord, it is well that we are here; if you wish, I will make three booths here, one for you and one for Moses and one for Eli'jah." Matt 17:3-4 ... Obviously Peter, James & John KNEW they were speaking...also they could SEE them. Otherwise, why did Peter ask Jesus if it was okay that they were there. Peter KNEW that they were in a 'holy' situation, a divine thing indeed.

mary is alive in heaven as much as my father is. but she is dead in the flesh,

Does scripture say anywhere that Mary actually died like normal people? Perhaps she is like Enoch and Eli'jah!

believing that mary is still intervening and communicating with people today absolutely detracts from the Gospel of Christ.

How so?

you seem to have taken a personal dislike towards me.

no, you set the tone with your almost first response to me, for after about my 5th post, you made it very clear what you thought about me!

the truth is in scripture, and scripture is very clear about Jesus having brothers and sisters.... not cousins. well he had cousins, too, but the ones referred to as his brothers and sisters were simply that. his brothers and sisters. read the passages in context both with the surrounding text and the remainder of scripture.

I have done extensive research on this very subject, so if you want to discuss our differing views back and forth, I'm willing to start another thread. But it still remains that you have yet to provide explicit scriptural references that specifically say that these 'brothers & sisters' were ACTUALLY born OF Mary, through HER womb, and with Joseph having fathered them!

i have nothing personal against you, never did, and do not believe that i implied so in my previous post despite the way you seem to have taken it. but i will not continue discuss anything with you, because your arguments do not line up with scripture nor do you want them to

I will have to reiterate this exact same thing to you. YOUR arguments do not line up with scripture. You seem to make what YOU SAY as 'factual' statements, YET they cannot be proven by scripture; the funny thing is...you require that of ME!

Edited July 19, 2004 by ServingHim

[stevehut]

I find it interesting that some people argue from tradition and conjecture, while allowing others to respond only from Scripture. Not a fair fight, if you ask me.

[jamie]

Just curious about all the appearances of Mary. Fatima isn't that mohamad's wife name?Why would Mary appear in a

[ServingHim]

I find it interesting that some people argue from tradition and conjecture, while allowing others to respond only from Scripture. Not a fair fight, if you ask me.

I don't know how ANYONE can deny factual history?!

[ServingHim]

They were with Jesus, and the word didn't mention them being agents of satan.

no you're right...but didn't mention that they weren't either. but I KNOW they weren't.

Mary is an idol to so many people, why wouldn't satan continue to cash in on that?

idol? a little harsh don't you think?! I'd say those whom you 'think' are seeing her as an idol are merely fulfilling scripture of her words .. 'all generations shall call me 'blessed'!

Why would God send a sign to a wicked generation when He said none would be given?

"It will come to pass in the last days," God says, "that I will pour out a portion of my spirit upon all flesh. Your sons and daughters shall prophesy, your young men shall see visions, your old men shall dream dreams." Acts 2:17

I personally believe that God can do whatever He deems He wants to do...the Bible was not even around in the format that we know it today until the late 4th century. Wonder what you suppose those people did without the Bible?! So, I don't limit God do ONLY what is written in the pages of the Bible, but I DO believe ALL that the Bible says because it is the INSPIRED Word of God. After all, John himself said "But there are also many other things which Jesus did; were every one of them to be written, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written." John 21:25 Obviously Jesus didn't limit himself EITHER to the Bible. And the Apostles NEVER had a Bible...something to think about!

Edited July 20, 2004 by ServingHim

[jamie]

What are these appearances accomplishing?