Atheism

[Guest]

.... And really, you should say "evolved into" instead of "became". The latter implies a short duration or even instantaneous change ....

Yeap!

Many Folk You See Try To Put God Somewhere Between The Top Of Their High Tops And The Bottom Of Their Chin

But God Is Really Really Really Big

Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?

Isaiah 66:1

And Really Really Really Fast

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

Genesis 1:1-5

And I Know

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

Romans 1:20-23

The Death Spiral Of The A-Theis

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

John 3:36

Will Not Flare Out Unless They Choose To Trust Jesus

And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 18:3

Or Splash Down Into The Lake

And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Revelation 20:14-15

>>>>>()<<<<<

Believe

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

John 14:6

And Be Blessed Beloved

Love, Joe

And at the end of the days I Nebuchadnezzar lifted up mine eyes unto heaven, and mine understanding returned unto me, and I blessed the most High, and I praised and honoured him that liveth for ever, whose dominion is an everlasting dominion, and his kingdom is from generation to generation:

And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

At the same time my reason returned unto me; and for the glory of my kingdom, mine honour and brightness returned unto me; and my counsellers and my lords sought unto me; and I was established in my kingdom, and excellent majesty was added unto me.

Now I Nebuchadnezzar praise and extol and honour the King of heaven, all whose works are truth, and his ways judgment: and those that walk in pride he is able to abase.

Daniel 4:34-37

[Not]

"The understanding that at the point in spacetime that the singularity occurred, quantum potential collapsed into sets of virtual particle/ anti-particle pairs due to vacuum fluctuations occasionally producing a non-zero value after which solar and planetary accretion condensed the remaining gases into stars and planets, the composition of which often includes organic chemicals which naturally form molecular bonds, and, in our case, autocatylitic feedback loops, i.e. simple replicators which proceeded to fill the oceans of early Earth eventually increasing in sophistication, forming lipid membranes around bubbles which protect the RNA and eventually DNA core of early single-celled organisms, which evolved the capacity to live in colonies, becoming simple multicellular organisms like sponges, which became intermediaries like polyps which became early invertibrates which branched into vertebrates, some of which eventually became fish, then amphibians, one of which (Tiktaalik) is famously among the first to crawl onto dry land, where amphibians branched off into reptiles, which branched into both birds and mammals, some of which survived the extinction event that killed the dinosaurs, became arboreal primates, later descended and learned to walk upright in order to carry food/tools/young, and, of course, those proto-humans eventually became us."

May not seem intuitive, but that's how the deal went down....

Yo.

I dunno, the more I learn about the intricacies of science and reality the more it seems to produce evidence of God.

For example, in some part of the world exists a certain type of flower that is shaped like a bee. It has evolved to this shape because male bees in that region mate by swooping down and grabbing female bees and mating in the air. So according to pure evolution that flower just happened through random genetic mutation to look a little bit like a bee and survived. As did the other millions of flowers that did not look like a bee. For millions of years until due to chance that flower became not the exceptio but th norm? That just seems to unlikely to me. As Albert Einstein said, "God doesn't play dice."

As for quantum mechanics which seems to interest you, doesn't it seem interesting that the maximum amount of information or "bits", that can be stuffed into a region of space or a "Planck-sized unit" is equal to the area of the region not the volume? Whats in all that empty space?

Not to mention that the beliefs of blacks holes you mentioned is an outdated model as there is much debate atm on the subject. I would suggest you read "The Black Hole War" by Leonard Susskind if you wish to know more

[Not]

Well, in A Brief History of Time, Stephen Hawking makes the argument that the universe always was and that the big bang/reaction started off its expansion.

"Always was" implies an infinite regression of time. Which means that it could never reach the point of the Big Bang. But I doubt that is what Hawking means. I understand it is postulated that before the Big Bang time did not exist. In which case it should have continued to exist in a completely static state.

You're right. I have the worst history when it comes to understanding physics so I think you're more spot on in terms of what Hawking meant. From what I understood, the argument was made that the universe was at 0 but it still "existed."

Right. But again this begs the question why did anything at all happen?

Chance. Something had to happen eventually. Regardless of how unlikely it is for a reaction to occur, as long as there is a small, miniscule chance, it will eventually happen.

"Eventually happen" infers time. Remember there was no time. In a completely static state (which it would have to be in to eternally exist outside of time) there would be no chance of anything happening; there could be no reactions as nothing would ever be occuring. Not to mention a reaction requires an action precipitating it. And actions and reactions must occur in time.

The problem is your still viewing time in Newtonian terms and not in modern terms. Time exist as Time-Space. Time does not move, we move through time. That's why thy say there was no time before the big bang. There was no space (at least not how its being defined here) in which for things to move through.

[Tony Smith]

Perhaps this conversation is to complicated. Atheists like the simple, the elegant and what they can comprehend. This is the greatest weakness of a Atheist, the minds God gifted us with are great, but not perfect. Atheists understand Christians when the Atheist realises that, to the Christian goodness, love and kindness is more important that whatever this generation's scientific theory dictates. Christians understand Atheists when they realise that they have fixation on this generation's perceived technical truth. This generation's perceived technical truth is transitory, temporary. Love, goodness and kindness is forever.

[Tony Smith]

Science is far from simple. And the minds humans have are plagued with pre-frontal lobes that are too small and in the kidneys, adrenal glands that are too big, which means we are prone to irrationality and being over-emotional (like having this crazy fear of death).

Physics, chemistry, and biology are more awe-inspiring than a jealous God/god.

Perhaps simple was the wrong word. It was my understanding that science is all about turning everything into expressible math. When there are two scientific equations that both, under all conditions produce identical results the more simple of the two is chosen. The more things that are brought into equations and the simpler these equations are is the so called progress of science. Ask any Atheist, they all love Occam's razor. Christ's love trumps any math, any equation.

[Guest]

....Physics, chemistry, and biology are more awe-inspiring than a jealous God/god....

His Love

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 3:16

Sinner's Hate

But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul: all they that hate me love death.

Proverbs 8:36

His Love

Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:

Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Exodus 20:3-6

Sinner's Hate

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Revelation 21:8

His Love

He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

Isaiah 53:3-7

Sinner's Hate

Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Hebrews 10:29

>>>>>()<<<<<

Dear One

You Claim Your Love Of Looking Into The Nature Of Phenomena And Objects Found Within The Material Universe

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

The same was in the beginning with God.

All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

John 1:1-3

Star Stuff Created By The Finger Play Of The LORD Jesus Christ

When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained;

Psalms 8:3

Yet You Mock His Expressions Of Love

Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

Hebrews 3:12

Whatever Happened To Your Eyes

But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

2 Corinthians 4:3-4

And Where Is Your Honor

The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

Psalms 14:1

That You Spurn Him

Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Hebrews 12:2

The SON

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life:

John 3:36(a)

Of God

and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

John 3;36(b)

Very Unwise Guy

[MorningGlory]

Perhaps this conversation is to complicated. Atheists like the simple, the elegant and what they can comprehend. This is the greatest weakness of a Atheist, the minds God gifted us with are great, but not perfect. Atheists understand Christians when the Atheist realises that, to the Christian goodness, love and kindness is more important that whatever this generation's scientific theory dictates. Christians understand Atheists when they realise that they have fixation on this generation's perceived technical truth. This generation's perceived technical truth is transitory, temporary. Love, goodness and kindness is forever.

Science is far from simple. And the minds humans have are plagued with pre-frontal lobes that are too small and in the kidneys, adrenal glands that are too big, which means we are prone to irrationality and being over-emotional (like having this crazy fear of death).

Physics, chemistry, and biology are more awe-inspiring than a jealous God/god.

You are being awed by His creations, listed above, and you don't even know it. Curious.

[Tony Smith]

I had a strange thought about science and scientists. It is a little circuitous, so please try to bare with me. Objectivity is absolutely critical to science. Perhaps persons of complete faith can make good scientists. Because at their core they believe little of the science that they are working with they can bring an "arms-length" approach, a better emotional detachment to their work. There must be something wrong with my logic, but logic may not be my strong point.