WN: Lutherans to Vote on Sexually Active Gay Clergy - Washington Post

[Scarletprayers]

I really don't know how this turned into a me v's every one else thread. I agree with most of you! I was never advocating gays in ministry, only for recovered gays in ministry. I am not being emotional or PC. I thought you guys knew me better than this!

Being set free is different the still having the desires but not fulfilling them, living asexually. That is what I am disagreeing with you on. The first is from God, the second from man. God never fails, but man does.

What if God chooses not to set them free?

I am going to be very open here. I've been a Christian pretty much my whole life, and always believed homosexuality is wrong. When I discovered that was my orientation... and it wasn't something I wanted or chose... I prayed daily begging God to free me from it. He chose not to, at least not so far. Does that mean that I haven't been relying on Him, or that I've been trying to "fix" it on my own? At least to me, that answer is a very clear no. What if there is a purpose in it all? If someday He does allow me to fall in love with someone of the opposite sex, then I'll be so grateful... but one thing that has been clear in my mind through all of it is that this "orientation" is only a temptation. I feel attraction to people of the same sex, but as long as I rely on God to help me not to entertain those thoughts and allow them to become lust, I am in His will. I am prepared to live a completely asexual life if that is what is required of me. And my situation isn't unique. Do you think someone like me should be kept from serving God in the ministry if that is what He calls us to?

I don't, Paul had a "thorn" that God refused to move, yet God used him to spread the gospel to the gentiles. Not meaning to say that his thorn was homosexuality, I'm not, but it still boils down to the same thing. I also don't agree that one can't be born with the leaning toward homosexuality, all of us have "things" that we are move likely to be drawn to, some its drugs or drinking or lying or stealing, or being promiscuous. All of us fight against our human nature about something in our lives, anybody that says they don't is either lying to themselves or trying to sell you something. All sin and fall short of the glory of God, the only person that ever walked the face of this earth and didn't sin is Jesus!

[~candice~]

Do you deny he was used mightily by God?

Even I deny it!

[~candice~]

I really don't know how this turned into a me v's every one else thread. I agree with most of you! I was never advocating gays in ministry, only for recovered gays in ministry. I am not being emotional or PC. I thought you guys knew me better than this!

Being set free is different the still having the desires but not fulfilling them, living asexually. That is what I am disagreeing with you on. The first is from God, the second from man. God never fails, but man does.

What if God chooses not to set them free?

I am going to be very open here. I've been a Christian pretty much my whole life, and always believed homosexuality is wrong. When I discovered that was my orientation... and it wasn't something I wanted or chose... I prayed daily begging God to free me from it. He chose not to, at least not so far. Does that mean that I haven't been relying on Him, or that I've been trying to "fix" it on my own? At least to me, that answer is a very clear no. What if there is a purpose in it all? If someday He does allow me to fall in love with someone of the opposite sex, then I'll be so grateful... but one thing that has been clear in my mind through all of it is that this "orientation" is only a temptation. I feel attraction to people of the same sex, but as long as I rely on God to help me not to entertain those thoughts and allow them to become lust, I am in His will. I am prepared to live a completely asexual life if that is what is required of me. And my situation isn't unique. Do you think someone like me should be kept from serving God in the ministry if that is what He calls us to?

I don't, Paul had a "thorn" that God refused to move, yet God used him to spread the gospel to the gentiles. Not meaning to say that his thorn was homosexuality, I'm not, but it still boils down to the same thing. I also don't agree that one can't be born with the leaning toward homosexuality, all of us have "things" that we are move likely to be drawn to, some its drugs or drinking or lying or stealing, or being promiscuous. All of us fight against our human nature about something in our lives, anybody that says they don't is either lying to themselves or trying to sell you something. All sin and fall short of the glory of God, the only person that ever walked the face of this earth and didn't sin is Jesus!

Phoenix . Your situation is by no means unique. You are doing well with the temptations you face. Yes, I would allow you to minister to me, absolutely.

Scarlets - I thought that Paul's thorn was illness, not a temptation? Nevertheless, he still battled with sin. The "chief of sinners"... who did what he wanted not to do, and didnt do what he wanted to do. Paul is my favourite apostle . As for causation, I really don't think it comes into play here. It doesn't matter what causes these temptations, just that they are submitted to Christ and biblical principles are applied for both private faith (repentence, belief) and ministering.

[PhoenixJLD]

I don't, Paul had a "thorn" that God refused to move, yet God used him to spread the gospel to the gentiles. Not meaning to say that his thorn was homosexuality, I'm not, but it still boils down to the same thing. I also don't agree that one can't be born with the leaning toward homosexuality, all of us have "things" that we are move likely to be drawn to, some its drugs or drinking or lying or stealing, or being promiscuous. All of us fight against our human nature about something in our lives, anybody that says they don't is either lying to themselves or trying to sell you something. All sin and fall short of the glory of God, the only person that ever walked the face of this earth and didn't sin is Jesus!

Yes... that's all I'm trying to say here. Each of us has our own weaknesses, and we need to rely on God to keep from falling to them. Homosexuality is just one of many, and I can't understand why people would say this one weakness should keep people from serving God more than any other.

I can tell you one thing, since fighting this battle my faith has grown more than it has the entire rest of my life.

[Scarletprayers]

Do you deny he was used mightily by God?

No, he was not. The Holy Spirit will use Gods word to work in anyone's life, no matter where it comes from. Are you saying that a gay person, who was tripping on acid in a canyon, that claimed to hear from God, is a viable candidate to be a preacher?

by their fruits you shall know them.

He died of aids, thats one of his fruits too. And God can use anything man does for His glory, it doesn't necessarily sanctify the person, and as for your healing remark, God does the healing based on the faith of the one being healed, not on the faith of the one laying on of hands.

[Scarletprayers]

I don't, Paul had a "thorn" that God refused to move, yet God used him to spread the gospel to the gentiles. Not meaning to say that his thorn was homosexuality, I'm not, but it still boils down to the same thing. I also don't agree that one can't be born with the leaning toward homosexuality, all of us have "things" that we are move likely to be drawn to, some its drugs or drinking or lying or stealing, or being promiscuous. All of us fight against our human nature about something in our lives, anybody that says they don't is either lying to themselves or trying to sell you something. All sin and fall short of the glory of God, the only person that ever walked the face of this earth and didn't sin is Jesus!

Yes... that's all I'm trying to say here. Each of us has our own weaknesses, and we need to rely on God to keep from falling to them. Homosexuality is just one of many, and I can't understand why people would say this one weakness should keep people from serving God more than any other.

I can tell you one thing, since fighting this battle my faith has grown more than it has the entire rest of my life.

I think its a cultural thing, that and the fact that so many believe that the homosexual agenda is to ram their way of life down our throats. Sin is sin, I struggle with my own, so does everybody else if they want to admit it or not.

[Scarletprayers]

I really don't know how this turned into a me v's every one else thread. I agree with most of you! I was never advocating gays in ministry, only for recovered gays in ministry. I am not being emotional or PC. I thought you guys knew me better than this!

Being set free is different the still having the desires but not fulfilling them, living asexually. That is what I am disagreeing with you on. The first is from God, the second from man. God never fails, but man does.

What if God chooses not to set them free?

I am going to be very open here. I've been a Christian pretty much my whole life, and always believed homosexuality is wrong. When I discovered that was my orientation... and it wasn't something I wanted or chose... I prayed daily begging God to free me from it. He chose not to, at least not so far. Does that mean that I haven't been relying on Him, or that I've been trying to "fix" it on my own? At least to me, that answer is a very clear no. What if there is a purpose in it all? If someday He does allow me to fall in love with someone of the opposite sex, then I'll be so grateful... but one thing that has been clear in my mind through all of it is that this "orientation" is only a temptation. I feel attraction to people of the same sex, but as long as I rely on God to help me not to entertain those thoughts and allow them to become lust, I am in His will. I am prepared to live a completely asexual life if that is what is required of me. And my situation isn't unique. Do you think someone like me should be kept from serving God in the ministry if that is what He calls us to?

I don't, Paul had a "thorn" that God refused to move, yet God used him to spread the gospel to the gentiles. Not meaning to say that his thorn was homosexuality, I'm not, but it still boils down to the same thing. I also don't agree that one can't be born with the leaning toward homosexuality, all of us have "things" that we are move likely to be drawn to, some its drugs or drinking or lying or stealing, or being promiscuous. All of us fight against our human nature about something in our lives, anybody that says they don't is either lying to themselves or trying to sell you something. All sin and fall short of the glory of God, the only person that ever walked the face of this earth and didn't sin is Jesus!

Phoenix . Your situation is by no means unique. You are doing well with the temptations you face. Yes, I would allow you to minister to me, absolutely.

Scarlets - I thought that Paul's thorn was illness, not a temptation? Nevertheless, he still battled with sin. The "chief of sinners"... who did what he wanted not to do, and didnt do what he wanted to do. Paul is my favourite apostle . As for causation, I really don't think it comes into play here. It doesn't matter what causes these temptations, just that they are submitted to Christ and biblical principles are applied for both private faith (repentence, belief) and ministering.

Well no one knows for sure andy, but most do believe it was an illness, I'm just saying that God doesn't always remove from us, something that we feel is standing in our way of serving Him. He will give us the strength to make it through as long as we depend on Him and not ourselves. I also agree with you that the "cause" doesn't matter, but from this thread you can tell that there seem to be those that do make a difference between sin(s) something I have always found very disturbing, but thats the way it is. I know I'm a sinner, and don't think my sin is better "class" of sin than somebody elses.

[~candice~]

Well no one knows for sure andy, but most do believe it was an illness, I'm just saying that God doesn't always remove from us, something that we feel is standing in our way of serving Him. He will give us the strength to make it through as long as we depend on Him and not ourselves. I also agree with you that the "cause" doesn't matter, but from this thread you can tell that there seem to be those that do make a difference between sin(s) something I have always found very disturbing, but thats the way it is. I know I'm a sinner, and don't think my sin is better "class" of sin than somebody elses.

Scarlets . I wish more people saw this. Most assume I have an agenda when I try to explain it, which I don't. I was starting to feel like a bit of a loner on worthy...

[~candice~]

Yes... that's all I'm trying to say here. Each of us has our own weaknesses, and we need to rely on God to keep from falling to them. Homosexuality is just one of many, and I can't understand why people would say this one weakness should keep people from serving God more than any other.

I can tell you one thing, since fighting this battle my faith has grown more than it has the entire rest of my life.

Thats why I think that people such as yourself have a powerful testimony about the ability of God to help us stand under temptation. My faith has grown stronger too. Think of it this way... every single day you are faced with the opportunity to choose Him over yourself, to submit to His ways rather than our own sinful desires. Honor God with your mind and body!

[~candice~]

Hey, I could use some company over here.

We don't even agree on whether it is a sin or not.