WN: Lutherans to Vote on Sexually Active Gay Clergy - Washington Post

[Guest]

A practical question to those in the ministry here at Worthy... what do you think about people who still have these temptations (but aren't acting on them, believe them to be sin, etc) contributing here at worthy? Do you consider this when you read their posts on other topics? Would you object to them giving advice in chat? Or would you accept their teaching if they made a post here on the boards?

Jesus Saves

Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

John 11:25

And Men Don't

For since the beginning of the world men have not heard, nor perceived by the ear, neither hath the eye seen, O God, beside thee, what he hath prepared for him that waiteth for him.

Thou meetest him that rejoiceth and worketh righteousness, those that remember thee in thy ways: behold, thou art wroth; for we have sinned: in those is continuance, and we shall be saved.

But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

And there is none that calleth upon thy name, that stirreth up himself to take hold of thee: for thou hast hid thy face from us, and hast consumed us, because of our iniquities.

But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.

Isaiah 64:4-8

It Is Holy Blood That Cleans

And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

Revelation 1:5

And At Worthy Family Is Welcome

Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;

Ephesians 5:19

Be Blessed Beloved Daughter Of The KING

Love, Your Brother Joe

Now also when I am old and grayheaded, O God, forsake me not; until I have shewed thy strength unto this generation, and thy power to every one that is to come.

Psalms 71:18

So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.

Luke 17:10

[PhoenixJLD]

There is no case where God would not set anyone free from sin. He promises to do so. So the problem is with you, not God.

I figured someone would say that. If there is a problem with me that prevents God from answering my prayers in that one particular area, I would very much like to know what it is...

Maybe you dont really want deliverance. It could other things as well, or a combination of issues. But God is faithful to His Word, so there is no problem on his end.

Whatever the issue is, God is not to blame, you are.

I was going to post very similar words to Shiloh.

You have to call it what it is - that is loving your brother/sister in Christ.

Why would God allow you to continue in what He calls sin?

I was once living in sin AS A CHRISTIAN - and the Lord pulled me up on it - I obeyed.

You may not be a practising gay person but if you are still going through the motions in your mind, it means you still have the desires for it.

You have to release these desires to the Lord.

Don't get offended when folks are trying to point out the truth.

I had it pointed out to me from God - be obedient and release the hold.

I'm not offended. If I was, I wouldn't have brought this up.

The thing is, I believe it's temptation I am living with... but not sin. I am not and never have been a "practising gay person." I feel physical and emotional attraction to people of the same sex, but have never allowed it to go past that to desire or lust - which is wrong. You could compare it with the temptation any unmarried Christian might go through. 2 Corinthians 10:5 talks about "bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ." That is what I am learning to do. Then I can release those thoughts and attractions to Him, who gives me strength to withstand the temptation. Maybe someday He'll see fit to take it away altogether - but that will be in His time, not mine.

[Guest HIS girl]

You said before that you always believed homosexuality was wrong?

That's telling you something.

We all have temptations that we struggle with on a daily basis - we as Christians also know what is sin -

The Bible is clear on that.

We can either choose to remain in the sin - and that includes thinking of it and secretly enjoying it - (don't have to physically practise it) - or acknowledge it as sin, release it and give it up to the healing, restoring power of God.

The Bible does talk about those that prefer darkness though:

John 3v19:

"And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil." Jesus of Nazareth NKJ

[Guest HIS girl]

'PhoenixJLD'

You could compare it with the temptation any unmarried Christian might go through.

I see what you are getting at - but we still have to admit that homosexual desires are not the norm.

It is wrong.

I am starting to feel as if folks are trying to airbrush homosexuality as just another "normal" sexual attraction.

[~candice~]

'PhoenixJLD'

You could compare it with the temptation any unmarried Christian might go through.

I see what you are getting at - but we still have to admit that homosexual desires are not the norm.

It is wrong.

I am starting to feel as if folks are trying to airbrush homosexuality as just another "normal" sexual attraction.

I think all he is saying is that he has to resist temptation to lust, just like straight single christians have to resist temptation to lust. The battle is the same and equally as hard. No one has stated that it is a normal attraction, so I don't think it is being airbrushed.

[Guest HIS girl]

HIS girl to PHJLD:

Don't get offended when folks are trying to point out the truth.

I had it pointed out to me from God - be obedient and release the hold.

nazorai

I'm glad you are not offended Phoenix. But I sure am.

Well I could have been offended with God too when He pointed out my error, but I chose to listen instead.

[Guest HIS girl]

~andy~'

I think all he is saying is that he has to resist temptation to lust, just like straight single christians have to resist temptation to lust. The battle is the same and equally as hard. No one has stated that it is a normal attraction, so I don't think it is being airbrushed.

Well lets hope so - I have had to go back a few times and re-read posts because there is a lot of mistruth here.

[~candice~]

~andy~'

I think all he is saying is that he has to resist temptation to lust, just like straight single christians have to resist temptation to lust. The battle is the same and equally as hard. No one has stated that it is a normal attraction, so I don't think it is being airbrushed.

Well lets hope so - I have had to go back a few times and re-read posts because there is a lot of mistruth here.

I believe Romans 1 calls it a "vile" passion, that is unnatural, and Leviticus 18 calls it an "abomination" meaning detestable. No airbrushing there .

[Guest shiloh357]

There is no case where God would not set anyone free from sin. He promises to do so. So the problem is with you, not God.

I figured someone would say that. If there is a problem with me that prevents God from answering my prayers in that one particular area, I would very much like to know what it is...

Maybe you dont really want deliverance. It could other things as well, or a combination of issues. But God is faithful to His Word, so there is no problem on his end.

Whatever the issue is, God is not to blame, you are.

Perhaps you don't realise how distressing it is to hear someone say this, after years of begging and pleading for the removal of these desires. Sanctification does not come instantly. Can man lead a perfect life?

Can you provide scripture?

The fact remains that God is faithful to His Word. No emotional appeal against me will change that fact. I don't know all of the factors in Phoenix's life and am not pretending to. But God is not holding anyone back, or keeping them sin. Often, we burn the candle at both ends. We want God's help, but are not willing to completely surrender.

God is neither responsible for someone for someone's entrance into this kind of orientation, nor is He the reason someone remains in it. What Phoenix needs is true deliverance and for that he/she needs pastoral counseling.

It is not about leading a perfect life, but it is about obedience.

[Guest shiloh357]

There is no case where God would not set anyone free from sin. He promises to do so. So the problem is with you, not God.

I figured someone would say that. If there is a problem with me that prevents God from answering my prayers in that one particular area, I would very much like to know what it is...

Maybe you dont really want deliverance. It could other things as well, or a combination of issues. But God is faithful to His Word, so there is no problem on his end.

Whatever the issue is, God is not to blame, you are.

Perhaps you don't realise how distressing it is to hear someone say this, after years of begging and pleading for the removal of these desires. Sanctification does not come instantly. Can man lead a perfect life?

Can you provide scripture?

The fact remains that God is faithful to His Word. No emotional appeal against me will change that fact. I don't know all of the factors in Phoenix's life and am not pretending to. But God is not holding anyone back, or keeping them sin. Often, we burn the candle at both ends. We want God's help, but are not willing to completely surrender.

God is neither responsible for someone for someone's entrance into a sinful lifestyle, nor is He the reason someone remains in it. What Phoenix needs is true deliverance and for that he/she needs pastoral counseling.

It is not about leading a perfect life, but it is about obedience.

Tell me brother, have you walked in these folks shoes to be able to judge them so harshly?

I am not judging anyone at all. I am speaking against the notion that maybe God doesn't want to deliever a person from sinful desires. That flies in the face of everything the Bible says about the Lord, and his character.

It is easier to blame God than it is to take responsibility and admit that the problem lies with us. We need to have the integrity to place the blame where it belongs, instead of blaming the very God who gave up His own Son to deliver us from sin.