can salvation be lost?

[Ashitaria]

Ashitaria,

I apreciate that you feel as you do.

I believe that in searching the scriptures you may have found some information, but you have failed to understand the love and mercy and grace of GOD. You have exchanged a relationship with HIM for a religion about HIM.

Long before the New Testament and JESUS, GOD showed that trust in HIM and belief in HIM was enough. "Abraham believed GOD and it was accounted to him as righteousness". Somewhere you have found information but failed to acquire knowledge. JESUS spoke of this when HE said, "You study the scriptures becouse in them you thin you will find salvation yet it is of ME that the testify" (I quoted that from memory so it is not perfect)

GOD is not a harsh GOD who is looking for men to do anything more than to believe HIM and believe in HIS SON. You can add all the other things you choose to the message JESUS gave, but JESUS made it very clear that believing GOD and believing HIM was sufficient. Yes, JESUS stated that those who believe and are baptised will be saved, but HE never stated that not being baptised would result in not being saved. Since I have both, that is not an issue for me.

Simple promise, "If you confess me before men, I will confess you before MY FATHER" That is a promise from JESUS. What else needs be said.

I hope you will seek HIM more diligently. I have found HIM and I am one of HIS.

If that was the case, I would have no need of saving and explaining. But look closely at:

James Chapter 2

2:1My brothers, don't hold the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ of glory with partiality. 2:2For if a man with a gold ring, in fine clothing, comes into your assembly, and a poor man in filthy clothing also comes in; 2:3and you pay special attention to him who wears the fine clothing, and say, "Sit here in a good place;" and you tell the poor man, "Stand there," or "Sit by my footstool;" 2:4haven't you shown partiality among yourselves, and become judges with evil thoughts? 2:5Listen, my beloved brothers. Didn't God choose those who are poor in this world to be rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he promised to those who love him? 2:6But you have dishonored the poor man. Don't the rich oppress you, and personally drag you before the courts? 2:7Don't they blaspheme the honorable name by which you are called? 2:8However, if you fulfill the royal law, according to the Scripture, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself," you do well. 2:9But if you show partiality, you commit sin, being convicted by the law as transgressors. 2:10For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he has become guilty of all. 2:11For he who said, "Do not commit adultery," said also, "Do not commit murder." Now if you do not commit adultery, but murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 2:12So speak, and so do, as men who are to be judged by a law of freedom. 2:13For judgment is without mercy to him who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment.

2:14What good is it, my brothers, if a man says he has faith, but has no works? Can faith save him? 2:15And if a brother or sister is naked and in lack of daily food, 2:16and one of you tells them, "Go in peace, be warmed and filled;" and yet you didn't give them the things the body needs, what good is it? 2:17Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead in itself. 2:18Yes, a man will say, "You have faith, and I have works." Show me your faith from your works, and I by my works will show you my faith.

2:19You believe that God is one. You do well. The demons also believe, and shudder. 2:20But do you want to know, vain man, that faith apart from works is dead? 2:21Wasn't Abraham our father justified by works, in that he offered up Isaac his son on the altar? 2:22You see that faith worked with his works, and by works faith was perfected; 2:23and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him as righteousness;" and he was called the friend of God. 2:24You see then that by works, a man is justified, and not only by faith. 2:25In like manner wasn't Rahab the prostitute also justified by works, in that she received the messengers, and sent them out another way? 2:26For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, even so faith apart from works is dead.

There is much much more to salvation as you think. The websites I have provided, the sermons I beg you guys to watch and read, can explain how to be saved better than me. I am merely a servant of the greater good.

Am I a false prophet? Let me tell you what. A false prophet tells you what you want to hear, and make you jump up on your feet. But a true prophet tells you the truth, as the person that loves you the most tells you the most truth, which was why Jesus, Paul and the apostles were persecuted and killed. I don't want to be unpopular by telling people this. It takes a lot of courage to tell other Christians, even those several years older than me, that they are wrong and are going to hell. I'm not old. Trying to preach to your own pastor isn't easy. I'm still in high school, but I'm trying my best to spread the gospel in my own church, across the internet and across the school.

Please, go be saved. I'm not saying this for the sake of scaring you. Read John 1 & 2. It will make you fall on your knees and beg for mercy.

You might say that God is a God of love, and that he loves us. Yes, that is true. But in the bible, in James, Paul, Revelations, especially John 1 & 2, there is no mention of him being a God of love. Even old testament tells us that God crushed many people without mercy. God is love, right? You will tell me that. But, its because he is love, he hates. For example, I love babies, that's why I hate abortion. It's the same thing. God loves, but he hates sin, and people who ignore/disobey/rebel against him.

Even in the Revelations, in his letter to the church of Laodicea (Revelation 3:14-22), he threatens to spit them out, to expel them out of his family(salvation) as they believe in the wrong things (lukewarm) and God, who sees this, prefers that they didn't believe in him at all (cold).

Many of the verses in the bible state this. That is why many of the self-proclaimed Christians: will go to hell.

Verses have double meanings. God says that as long as you believe in Jesus, you are saved. But, what part of Jesus to you believe in? Do you believe that he died on the cross, and because of that knowledge, you are saved? Go back and read James Chapter 2:19. Even the demons know Jesus died on the cross, and they shudder. They are not saved. Same thing. Are you really confessing Jesus among men? The Jesus you are confessing may not be Jesus. The gospel you are proclaiming is twisted and wrong. Do not be stubborn. The fools are stubborn, the wise see and follow.

Baptism. Go back and read my previous posts, no. Go read what the website says, they will prove the opposite.

This website will explain, thoroughly how to be saved, and provides many verses that support their cause:

http://www.bible.ca/interactive/salvation-interactive.htm

The sermon that changed my life:

*edit Links*

Edited November 9, 2009 by Matthitjah
No youtube allowed on Worthy

[Smalcald]

There is much much more to salvation as you think.

How do you know what I think?

I don't think anyone here really disagrees in any big way with what you are saying. Works are going to be present in someone who has salvation, there is no doubt about that. All Christians will be baptized if it is at all possible.

So what are we missing?

[Ashitaria]

There is much much more to salvation as you think.

How do you know what I think?

I don't think anyone here really disagrees in any big way with what you are saying. Works are going to be present in someone who has salvation, there is no doubt about that. All Christians will be baptized if it is at all possible.

So what are we missing?

What you guys are missing is the knowledge of Jesus baptism.

By now, you guys should know that faith alone is dead. That you have to be careful in what you believe in, and what you believe in must be supported by the bible.

You guys must also know that we cannot obey even one commandment, not any of us.You guys should also know that many the phenomenons (speaking in tongues, prophesying, etc.) that people claim to have experienced are manipulations from the devil, as they do not believe in the right gospel. The devil is deceiving them.

And yet, many of the verses in the bible tell us to be perfect, sinless, to strive to be like Christ, even though we can never be and that such efforts are in vain.

Verses in the bible tell us to be baptized to be saved, causing much confusion, as people are disillusioned by the verses of the bible.

This is what I want you guys to know, after debating so long about salvation.

The baptism of Jesus marks the time when John the Baptist sent all of our sins (past,present and future) to him, meaning that we do not have to pray in repentance to every sin we commit to be saved.

It means that because of this, we are sinless and holy, free from sin, even if we do sin.

What about John 1? you ask.

http://www.bjnewlife.org/english/bstudy/sermons_09.php

This website here will explain everything about the gospel that I am trying to preach.

www.bjnewlife.org

From here on out, my work here is done. I ask of all of you to go the the website and read the e-books provided there.

[kross]

Ashitaria,

I apreciate that you feel as you do.

I believe that in searching the scriptures you may have found some information, but you have failed to understand the love and mercy and grace of GOD. You have exchanged a relationship with HIM for a religion about HIM.

Long before the New Testament and JESUS, GOD showed that trust in HIM and belief in HIM was enough. "Abraham believed GOD and it was accounted to him as righteousness". Somewhere you have found information but failed to acquire knowledge. JESUS spoke of this when HE said, "You study the scriptures becouse in them you thin you will find salvation yet it is of ME that the testify" (I quoted that from memory so it is not perfect)

GOD is not a harsh GOD who is looking for men to do anything more than to believe HIM and believe in HIS SON. You can add all the other things you choose to the message JESUS gave, but JESUS made it very clear that believing GOD and believing HIM was sufficient. Yes, JESUS stated that those who believe and are baptised will be saved, but HE never stated that not being baptised would result in not being saved. Since I have both, that is not an issue for me.

Simple promise, "If you confess me before men, I will confess you before MY FATHER" That is a promise from JESUS. What else needs be said.

I hope you will seek HIM more diligently. I have found HIM and I am one of HIS.

If that was the case, I would have no need of saving and explaining. But look closely at:

James Chapter 2

2:1My brothers, don't hold the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ of glory with partiality. 2:2For if a man with a gold ring, in fine clothing, comes into your assembly, and a poor man in filthy clothing also comes in; 2:3and you pay special attention to him who wears the fine clothing, and say, "Sit here in a good place;" and you tell the poor man, "Stand there," or "Sit by my footstool;" 2:4haven't you shown partiality among yourselves, and become judges with evil thoughts? 2:5Listen, my beloved brothers. Didn't God choose those who are poor in this world to be rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he promised to those who love him? 2:6But you have dishonored the poor man. Don't the rich oppress you, and personally drag you before the courts? 2:7Don't they blaspheme the honorable name by which you are called? 2:8However, if you fulfill the royal law, according to the Scripture, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself," you do well. 2:9But if you show partiality, you commit sin, being convicted by the law as transgressors. 2:10For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he has become guilty of all. 2:11For he who said, "Do not commit adultery," said also, "Do not commit murder." Now if you do not commit adultery, but murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 2:12So speak, and so do, as men who are to be judged by a law of freedom. 2:13For judgment is without mercy to him who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment.

2:14What good is it, my brothers, if a man says he has faith, but has no works? Can faith save him? 2:15And if a brother or sister is naked and in lack of daily food, 2:16and one of you tells them, "Go in peace, be warmed and filled;" and yet you didn't give them the things the body needs, what good is it? 2:17Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead in itself. 2:18Yes, a man will say, "You have faith, and I have works." Show me your faith from your works, and I by my works will show you my faith.

2:19You believe that God is one. You do well. The demons also believe, and shudder. 2:20But do you want to know, vain man, that faith apart from works is dead? 2:21Wasn't Abraham our father justified by works, in that he offered up Isaac his son on the altar? 2:22You see that faith worked with his works, and by works faith was perfected; 2:23and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him as righteousness;" and he was called the friend of God. 2:24You see then that by works, a man is justified, and not only by faith. 2:25In like manner wasn't Rahab the prostitute also justified by works, in that she received the messengers, and sent them out another way? 2:26For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, even so faith apart from works is dead.

There is much much more to salvation as you think. The websites I have provided, the sermons I beg you guys to watch and read, can explain how to be saved better than me. I am merely a servant of the greater good.

Am I a false prophet? Let me tell you what. A false prophet tells you what you want to hear, and make you jump up on your feet. But a true prophet tells you the truth, as the person that loves you the most tells you the most truth, which was why Jesus, Paul and the apostles were persecuted and killed. I don't want to be unpopular by telling people this. It takes a lot of courage to tell other Christians, even those several years older than me, that they are wrong and are going to hell. I'm not old. Trying to preach to your own pastor isn't easy. I'm still in high school, but I'm trying my best to spread the gospel in my own church, across the internet and across the school.

Please, go be saved. I'm not saying this for the sake of scaring you. Read John 1 & 2. It will make you fall on your knees and beg for mercy.

You might say that God is a God of love, and that he loves us. Yes, that is true. But in the bible, in James, Paul, Revelations, especially John 1 & 2, there is no mention of him being a God of love. Even old testament tells us that God crushed many people without mercy. God is love, right? You will tell me that. But, its because he is love, he hates. For example, I love babies, that's why I hate abortion. It's the same thing. God loves, but he hates sin, and people who ignore/disobey/rebel against him.

Even in the Revelations, in his letter to the church of Laodicea (Revelation 3:14-22), he threatens to spit them out, to expel them out of his family(salvation) as they believe in the wrong things (lukewarm) and God, who sees this, prefers that they didn't believe in him at all (cold).

Many of the verses in the bible state this. That is why many of the self-proclaimed Christians: will go to hell.

Verses have double meanings. God says that as long as you believe in Jesus, you are saved. But, what part of Jesus to you believe in? Do you believe that he died on the cross, and because of that knowledge, you are saved? Go back and read James Chapter 2:19. Even the demons know Jesus died on the cross, and they shudder. They are not saved. Same thing. Are you really confessing Jesus among men? The Jesus you are confessing may not be Jesus. The gospel you are proclaiming is twisted and wrong. Do not be stubborn. The fools are stubborn, the wise see and follow.

Baptism. Go back and read my previous posts, no. Go read what the website says, they will prove the opposite.

This website will explain, thoroughly how to be saved, and provides many verses that support their cause:

http://www.bible.ca/interactive/salvation-interactive.htm

The sermon that changed my life:

The JESUS I am confessing is THE CHRIST

[kross]

There is much much more to salvation as you think.

How do you know what I think?

I don't think anyone here really disagrees in any big way with what you are saying. Works are going to be present in someone who has salvation, there is no doubt about that. All Christians will be baptized if it is at all possible.

So what are we missing?

What you guys are missing is the knowledge of Jesus baptism.

By now, you guys should know that faith alone is dead. That you have to be careful in what you believe in, and what you believe in must be supported by the bible.

You guys must also know that we cannot obey even one commandment, not any of us.You guys should also know that many the phenomenons (speaking in tongues, prophesying, etc.) that people claim to have experienced are manipulations from the devil, as they do not believe in the right gospel. The devil is deceiving them.

And yet, many of the verses in the bible tell us to be perfect, sinless, to strive to be like Christ, even though we can never be and that such efforts are in vain.

Verses in the bible tell us to be baptized to be saved, causing much confusion, as people are disillusioned by the verses of the bible.

This is what I want you guys to know, after debating so long about salvation.

The baptism of Jesus marks the time when John the Baptist sent all of our sins (past,present and future) to him, meaning that we do not have to pray in repentance to every sin we commit to be saved.

It means that because of this, we are sinless and holy, free from sin, even if we do sin.

What about John 1? you ask.

http://www.bjnewlife.org/english/bstudy/sermons_09.php

This website here will explain everything about the gospel that I am trying to preach.

www.bjnewlife.org

From here on out, my work here is done. I ask of all of you to go the the website and read the e-books provided there.

You atated nothing here I don't agree with. So what is it you think I do not know?

[Ashitaria]

You atated nothing here I don't agree with. So what is it you think I do not know?

Then congratulations. If you have read everything that I have posted, and agree with everything that I have deplored, than you are truly saved. If so, please spread the gospel that I am teaching.

[kross]

You atated nothing here I don't agree with. So what is it you think I do not know?

Then congratulations. If you have read everything that I have posted, and agree with everything that I have deplored, than you are truly saved. If so, please spread the gospel that I am teaching.

You have stated nothing that disagrees with any Chrisitan teaching I have read or heard (I say "Christian" in separation of false doctrine)

I will continue to teach what the Bible states. As you quoted, "I by my works will show you my faith" which is the cruxt of what John wrote. IF one has faith, than they will have works also.

Being here, speaking well of JESUS is the work that shows salvation.

[Ashitaria]

You atated nothing here I don't agree with. So what is it you think I do not know?

Then congratulations. If you have read everything that I have posted, and agree with everything that I have deplored, than you are truly saved. If so, please spread the gospel that I am teaching.

You have stated nothing that disagrees with any Chrisitan teaching I have read or heard (I say "Christian" in separation of false doctrine)

I will continue to teach what the Bible states. As you quoted, "I by my works will show you my faith" which is the cruxt of what John wrote. IF one has faith, than they will have works also.

Being here, speaking well of JESUS is the work that shows salvation.

But do you know what Jesus' baptism was for?

[kross]

You atated nothing here I don't agree with. So what is it you think I do not know?

Then congratulations. If you have read everything that I have posted, and agree with everything that I have deplored, than you are truly saved. If so, please spread the gospel that I am teaching.

You have stated nothing that disagrees with any Chrisitan teaching I have read or heard (I say "Christian" in separation of false doctrine)

I will continue to teach what the Bible states. As you quoted, "I by my works will show you my faith" which is the cruxt of what John wrote. IF one has faith, than they will have works also.

Being here, speaking well of JESUS is the work that shows salvation.

But do you know what Jesus' baptism was for?

To show a clear conscience towards GOD. It is a symbolic act of obedience, nothing more.

Sorry, I did not see the part about John the baptist placing our sins on JESUS. I never would have though John had that power. There is nothing in the scriptures to support this statement. Someone added to the scriptures something from their own imagination of why JESUS needed to be baptised.

Since JESUS was sinless until HIS crucifiction, this is a very blasphemous statement.

[Ashitaria]

Then you are not saved. As you demand proof, I give you proof: http://www.bjnewlife.org/english/bstudy/sermons_05.php

In that page, it will show that John did indeed had that power as he was appointed as the representative of mankind (Matthew 11:10-11) and that he did pass all of our sins onto Jesus (Matthew 3:15).

Read the website for the entire explanation. Jesus was sinless, but his flesh was not. When he was crucified, the flesh was destroyed along with sin.

Do you have anything else to say? Any questions to ask? Any point to make?