Confession

[Massorite]

Jesus did give the church the power to pronounce the forgiveness of sins.

Would you please tell me where to find this in the gospel.

Mt 16.19, 18.18, Jn 20.23 for starters.

Mt.16:19 Is about the authority given to the Apostles to teach and preach the gospel. Albert Barnes Comm. It was not to forgive individuals, but to establish in all churches the terms and conditions on which men might be.

Adam Clark Comm. When the Jews made a man a doctor of law, they put into his hand a key of a closet in the temple where the sacred books were kept, and also tablets to write upon, signifying, by this, that they gave him the authority to teach and explain the scriptures.

Binding and loosing were terms in frequent use among the Jews, and that they meant binding or forbidding, granting or refusing, declaring lawful or unlawful, this is in reference to John20:23

Authority is given to determine who is worthy to be a member of the church( see Isaiah 22:22).

How can a priest or minister know a man's heart and determine whether he is worthy of forgiveness.

Almighty God through the, one time only, sacrifice ,made by our Lord Christ Jesus, accepts this payment in atonement for the sins of all mankind. Why then, would a priest, able to forgive sin( as you say), require penance, when God Almighty Himself does not require the same?

Acts6:6 Albert Barnes, Among the Jews it was customary to lay hands on the head of a person who was set apart to any particular office(Nu,27:18) also (Ac.8:19). This was done, not to impart any power or ability, but to designate that they received their authority or commission, from those who laid their hands on them...

2Timothy1:6 Albert Barnes, that thou stir up the gift of God,, That thou kindle as a fire, the original word here denotes the kindling of a fire. The idea is, that Timothy was to use all proper means to keep the flame of pure religion in the soul burning, and more particularly his zeal in the great cause to which he had been set apart.

which is in thee by putting on of my hands, In connection with the presbytery(see 1Ti4:14). This proves that Paul took part in the ordination of Timothy, but it does not prove either that he performed the duty alone, or that the " ordaining virtue ", whatever it was, was imparted by him only, for it is expressly said in 1 Ti 4:14, that he was ordained by the laying on of the hands of the presbytery, of which Paul was doubtless one....

2Timothy2:2 Brethren commentary...From the concluding part of the verse " who shall be able to teach others also ", it is implied that the ' things " here alluded to include all things Paul had taught him pertaining to the doctrines of the Christian religion and how he should conduct himself as a minister of Christ.

On verse 2 Adam Clarke says this.. but where is the uninterrupted apostolic succession. Who can tell? Probably it does not exist on the face of the world. All pretensions to it by certain churches are as stupid as they are idle and futile. He who appeals to this for his authority as a Christian minister, had best sit down till he has made it out....

Titus1:5..John Wesley, Ordain Elders- Appoint the most faithful, zealous men to watch over the rest. Their character follows, Titus1:6-9. These were the elders, or bishops, that Paul approved of, men that had living faith, a pure conscience, a blameless life.

I consulted more than the commentaries I quoted above. Consistent throughout was the declaration that only God can forgive sin and that the authority given to the church was to teach and preach the gospel and to maintain the truth in the teaching.

Thanks, but I'm not interested in interpretations and a barrage of commentary. If someone comes to me broken by sin and repentant, I'm going to take up my God-given role as Christ's ambassador and tell them on the authority of Scripture that God forgives them and wants to restore.

I agree Paul1149. All commentaries are man made based on mans interpretation of the word of God.

[Believer1997]

I am a Catholic and have never understood why Catholics have to confess their sins to a priest. Wouldn't it be better to confess directly to Jesus and ask for forgiveness?

Just wondering - but why would you be a member of any denomination that, as a sacrament of the church has confession, and not "understand" why they have to confess their sins? Have you inquired why? It seems like that is a pretty big deal in the Catholic Church and you should probably understand it enough to make an informed decision as to whether you want to continue your membership within the church. imo.

[pokemaughan]

I am a Catholic and have been taught that during confession I confess to Jesus but through the person of the priest, and of course only Jesus can forgive.

And of course its all really about a self examination of conscience and sincere repentence or the whole exercise is a waste of time.

I must say that I am very disappointed at the nastiness coming from the hearts of some posters on this site towards Catholics.

It is not a truly non denominational site.

People parrot big chunks of scripture from here there and everywhere and I'm sure half of them have no idea what they're talking about.

Jesus had one simple commandment I thought, to love God with all our hearts and minds and love our neighbours like ourselves.

I've got nastiness towards the sin (false doctrine and corrupting of the Word), not you. I HATE sin, and I HATE when God's Word is twisted to suit false doctrine. I will not back down on that, I will stand for truth. I hope you can honor that.

Now back to Jesus giving apostles power to forgive sins:

You guys keep pulling a single passage and ignoring the rest of the Bible. Remember that it doesn't contradict itself. Sin is only forgiven through blood- and as Christ did away with the Old Covenant, it is only His blood that covers sins. So how then, do you suppose, should you interpret that passage? The apostles or saints or priests or what-have-you did not shed the blood, are not God, and do not have power to forgive iniquity against God. Only Christ is the ambassador, not men!

You're tearing small parts of Scripture out of the Word and having them function by themselves- this isn't proper at all. One can justify a laundry list of sin by doing that- such as defending the false doctrine of the Catholic church. You miss the entire tenor of Scripture...

[pokemaughan]

Yes. That is true. Outside the one holy Roman Catholic and Apostolic Church there is no salvation.

Chapter/verse please

Acts 2:47 And the Lord increased daily together such as should be saved.

Jesus founded His Church, His one and only Bride, and every day adds to Her all those who are being saved.

Okay, so I see this verse from Acts. And what it says, is that the Lord (God, Jesus, the Spirit, what have you) added daily to count of souls who were bought with His blood and Spirit. I see that.

Where in the world do you get "Catholic is what salvation is". I have not seen anything in Scripture to reflect that. Blood, Spirit. That's it.

[paul1149]

Thanks, but I'm not interested in interpretations and a barrage of commentary. If someone comes to me broken by sin and repentant, I'm going to take up my God-given role as Christ's ambassador and tell them on the authority of Scripture that God forgives them and wants to restore.

If someone were to come to me broken by sin and repentant, as Christ's ambassador I would tell them the same. But thats not what we are discussing.

Actually it is ...God forgives them, not a priest, rabbi or minister, but God, and only those with a contrite and repentant heart...because only God can see the heart.

And this forgiveness only comes by way of the cross, through Christ Jesus.

The scriptures I researched are the ones you listed in response to my question as to how you justified a priest's ability to forgive sin and the apostolic succession, in which I found no support for such a claim.

In this thread I have seen it stated that salvation can only be received if you belong to the one true church, meaning the RCC, I would be interested to know the scriptures used to support this claim. I need to know how my understanding of the sacrifice my Lord and Savior made ,by God's Grace, is no longer a free gift, but dependent upon my membership and the approval of the catholic church.

I need to understand why catholic priests are called father, when the scriptures clearly prohibit us from doing so.

I need to understand what scriptures encourage God's children to pray to any other being except Him.

i need to understand how a church, any church, can demand things for God's gifts beyond that which God requires.

I suggest you review my posts to see where I said the things you say I did, and before you define for yourself what I am discussing.

[Smalcald]

It comes down to who is Catholic? It is not necessarily the teachings but where is the authority? Does it really reside in this organization called the Roman Catholic Church, or does it reside in some other denomination, or does it reside as the collective faith of the billions of believers who have true faith in Christ as their Lord?

To me the problem with claiming that the organization currently located in Rome is the only true Church established by Christ would not necessarily be the teachings per-se, but their actions. Should not the true Church that Christ established be less corrupt than the other non-true Churches, should it not resemble the first humble churches described in Acts?

The Protestant conception is simply that we do not believe that Christ would establish His Church based on power and control, it simply does not make sense when compared with the congregations as described in Acts established on faith in Christ alone, first and foremost. The Catholic tradition is more like the tradition of the Emporers of Rome and kings of Europe however which the Catholic Church has had an historical connection with.

So the question is where is this true Catholic Church?

[~Shalhevet~]

On a personal side, I made a huge confession to my pastor (I am Lutheran) and the entire experience was incredible. He was not critical of me, but nor did he tell me what I had done was okay. I think maybe some people (like me) need to confess to people in order to move on with their lives and leave the troubles behind. And that confession led me to seek Christ at a deeper level and I am a much better person because of it.

[paul1149]

Thanks, but I'm not interested in interpretations and a barrage of commentary. If someone comes to me broken by sin and repentant, I'm going to take up my God-given role as Christ's ambassador and tell them on the authority of Scripture that God forgives them and wants to restore.

I agree Paul1149. All commentaries are man made based on mans interpretation of the word of God.

Whoa, agreement here!? Hallelujah! How good and pleasant....

I'm actually not an anti-commentary person. When I'm trying to take apart a passage I'll often whip one out and learn from it - before I make up my own mind. But I dislike commentary wars, or any kind of theological wars. I like what Wigglesworth said: "Some like to read the Bible in Greek and Hebrew; I like to read it in Holy Spirit". I don't pretend not to need help at times from others, but the HS is the final interpreter and can get the meaning across to the heart that is open.

Be blessed,

p.

[OneLight]

Let's remember that the word Catholic means universal. Christs church is universal; therefore, catholic in nature. There is a difference between catholic and the Roman Catholic Church.

[pokemaughan]

On a personal side, I made a huge confession to my pastor (I am Lutheran) and the entire experience was incredible. He was not critical of me, but nor did he tell me what I had done was okay. I think maybe some people (like me) need to confess to people in order to move on with their lives and leave the troubles behind. And that confession led me to seek Christ at a deeper level and I am a much better person because of it.

Definitely, confession is a necessary part of accountability because sin flourishes in darkness.

But sins were forgiven on the cross, not in your pastor's ears, right?