It really does happen

[Smalcald]

Sorry for being cranky, I do love the US.

But my point is that what IS our culture? What does that even mean in the US?

[Rick-Parker]

Freedom and tolerance is our culture in the US. It's not like that in every corner of our country, but we are getting there. If we could do it on a Christian basis, that would be great.

[Smalcald]

I think there are two things.

1) The US form of Democracy, Liberty and the Rule of Law. So to me this is critical, that when you come here you realize that you must respect the rights of others that you must follow the law that WE have established. You can't kill your daughter or your wife for example even if your freaky religion says it is okay.

2) Our culture. This is something that I would hope most immigrants resist and avoid. I would hope they can breed fresh conservative family based values back into our trashy culture. It is possible we may have common ground on some of these issues, we could work to outlaw abortion, make divorce harder to obtain, outlaw pornography, restrict sales of Liquor, things like that we may be able to work together on. In Muslim countries you don't see the trashy culture that we have here, they have a greater respect for traditional family values.

[CSLewis]

I think there are two things.

1) The US form of Democracy, Liberty and the Rule of Law. So to me this is critical, that when you come here you realize that you must respect the rights of others that you must follow the law that WE have established. You can't kill your daughter or your wife for example even if your freaky religion says it is okay.

2) Our culture. This is something that I would hope most immigrants resist and avoid. I would hope they can breed fresh conservative family based values back into our trashy culture. It is possible we may have common ground on some of these issues, we could work to outlaw abortion, make divorce harder to obtain, outlaw pornography, restrict sales of Liquor, things like that we may be able to work together on. In Muslim countries you don't see the trashy culture that we have here, they have a greater respect for traditional family values.

Family values like child and spousal abuse, marital rape and incest.

[Smalcald]

I think there are two things.

1) The US form of Democracy, Liberty and the Rule of Law. So to me this is critical, that when you come here you realize that you must respect the rights of others that you must follow the law that WE have established. You can't kill your daughter or your wife for example even if your freaky religion says it is okay.

2) Our culture. This is something that I would hope most immigrants resist and avoid. I would hope they can breed fresh conservative family based values back into our trashy culture. It is possible we may have common ground on some of these issues, we could work to outlaw abortion, make divorce harder to obtain, outlaw pornography, restrict sales of Liquor, things like that we may be able to work together on. In Muslim countries you don't see the trashy culture that we have here, they have a greater respect for traditional family values.

Family values like child and spousal abuse, marital rape and incest.

Right, we have high levels of all of those right here...

But I know what you mean, they treat women as property and I don't advocate that at all. But I also don't like our culture, which is no less violent and no less demeaning toward women.

We have nothing to show them culturally, we kill one million babies a year and 35% of all children born in the US are born out of wedlock through fornication, we have higher murder rates we imprison more people and we use more drugs, I hope they help us change this culture frankly. There is nothing very positive about modern western culture from a Christian perspective we should be ashamed of it, I know I am.

However our ideals of individual liberty, equal rights for all human beings, the Rule of Law, trust in Democracy are indeed great enduring values and will in the end save us if we let them.

[humbleseeker]

Freedom to choose is given from God since Adam and Eve. I believe in the right to choose your religion and decide to do whats right or wrong in your own eyes. While I believe this, I also believe that there is only one way to life and that is through Jesus Christ. Jesus never wanted us to submit in fear like the muslims do he told us to choose this day to serve him or not.

[Isaiah 6:8]

I think there are two things.

1) The US form of Democracy, Liberty and the Rule of Law. So to me this is critical, that when you come here you realize that you must respect the rights of others that you must follow the law that WE have established. You can't kill your daughter or your wife for example even if your freaky religion says it is okay.

2) Our culture. This is something that I would hope most immigrants resist and avoid. I would hope they can breed fresh conservative family based values back into our trashy culture. It is possible we may have common ground on some of these issues, we could work to outlaw abortion, make divorce harder to obtain, outlaw pornography, restrict sales of Liquor, things like that we may be able to work together on. In Muslim countries you don't see the trashy culture that we have here, they have a greater respect for traditional family values.

Family values like child and spousal abuse, marital rape and incest.

What do you personally have against Muslims? Your attacks are either rooted in a deep fear, a deep personal hurt from them, or I hesitate to say but almost a racism like hate. I again am not defending there faith. I am defending the people blinded by it. Again I have known former Muslims, one came to the Lord because he had a tender heart and was sick of the injustice. YES Islam is a twisted religion that deceives millions of people and has a dangerous bend. As does Mormonism. Mormons used to use terror tactics and kill those who did not agree. They massacred an entire wagon train that was passing through. Also Drugs are evil many millions abuse them, and thousands hurt and kill other people under the influence. So are we to hate the people doing the sin? Are we to hate are enemies, to destroy and kill them ruthlessly as they do us? Does your attitude towards them make you better then them? Is this Christ like? Is this what the Lord has asked us to do?

So what if a child gets born to drug addicts. From a very young age he is given drugs, some how survives into adulthood. By now he is hopelessly addicted to drugs. He commits violent crimes on the drugs even kills a person. Is he responsible? Yes he is, as we all are. But do you blame him for the way he was raised? Or do you pray for him and try to reach him and show him Jesus our Savior and Healer. How many people in this world are lost and sinners. Some dangerous some hate because that's what mommy and daddy taught them. Yes they still make there own choices. But then again some of the most hateful arrogant and judgmental people I have ever met were Christians. I have seen them very violent etc. The thing is these

[Isaiah 6:8]

BTW C.S. Lewis I agree with you on most your other posts, matter of fact I have wanted to reply so some subjects, and you already did with a reply so alike mine that I did not bother. This is one issue that bothers me, I think because to my point of view you are on target with everything else. As I go back and forth with this subject I realize and remember more and more what the Lord has put into my heart to do with my life, so thank you for that.

Edited November 2, 2009 by Isaiah 6:8

[Smalcald]

Freedom to choose is given from God since Adam and Eve. I believe in the right to choose your religion and decide to do whats right or wrong in your own eyes. While I believe this, I also believe that there is only one way to life and that is through Jesus Christ. Jesus never wanted us to submit in fear like the muslims do he told us to choose this day to serve him or not.

I totally agree. Freedom means that we are free to make insane choices, but that is the price we pay and it is WORTH it.

Mohammad was a warrior General, who killed people, Christ was a man who was killed by evil men for our sakes, and there is the root of the difference. Islam is based on control and power.

Now my points are that in the West our culture has degenerated to the point that when non-Western Countries look at us what do they see? They certainly do not see a conservative culture based on family values of any sort. On the whole we are a culture in decline, both in the US and in Europe, we are a culture that mocks God that blaspheme the name of God. What do we show on TV? If a Muslim simply moved here from Saudi or a conservative country and started watching? Would he see shows that glorify God in any way shape or form? Would he even be able to guess that anybody in this country even believed in God? I remember my Muslim friends back in the early 1980's from College asking me about the band "black Sabbath" what does that mean? I told them that Jews and Christians had a Sabbath day and this group was mocking that day that God left us, he was astounded that this would be allowed and what kind of a place would do that? So that was good, but then he also said that in his country they would kill them, which well was bad....

So we have this problem with how they think. But at the same time we should not out of the box deny their criticism of our culture, much of it is legitimate.

[Rick-Parker]

The girl has died.