KINGDOM OF MESSIAH

[Guest shiloh357]

It's all coming to an ultimate dividing between those who take God at His Word the way Abraham did (and the way Isaac, Jacob, Moses, the prophets and the apostles did); and those who do not believe the Word of God which came to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses and the prophets - just like they did not believe the Word of God which came to Noah - and just like first Eve and then Adam did not believe the Word of God regarding the tree of knowledge of good and evil - because they had to disbelieve that God actually meant what He said in order to believe the lie of the devil.

Yep, that about sums it up.

It's no wonder the West is in so much trouble with Islamic terrorism and Muslims demanding shariah law in the West and demanding the international outlawing of "blasphemy against Islam". Not only the world but also "the Church" is siding more and more with those who have a demonic hatred of God's chosen nation and their right to live in His land.

You would be surprised how much money was given by churches to Palestinian "charities" that ended up in Arafat's personal account years ago. The larger portion of the western Church pretty much stands with the Palestinians against Israel, and this is due in part to viruently anti-Semitic theology that cannot accept that natural Israel is still God's chosen nation. It is not all unlike the "churches' in Europe that bowed the knee to Hitler. Now, they bow the knee to Islam.

It all depends on whether or not we BELIEVE the Word of God which came to Adam, to Noah, to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses and the prophets. The apostles believed it. But a great part of the Church does not.

Go figure.

It would be shocking to the Apostles to hear Christians claim that "the church is the new Israel." That is concept that is foreign to the Bible.

[lekh l'kha]

It's all coming to an ultimate dividing between those who take God at His Word the way Abraham did (and the way Isaac, Jacob, Moses, the prophets and the apostles did); and those who do not believe the Word of God which came to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses and the prophets - just like they did not believe the Word of God which came to Noah - and just like first Eve and then Adam did not believe the Word of God regarding the tree of knowledge of good and evil - because they had to disbelieve that God actually meant what He said in order to believe the lie of the devil.

Yep, that about sums it up.

It's no wonder the West is in so much trouble with Islamic terrorism and Muslims demanding shariah law in the West and demanding the international outlawing of "blasphemy against Islam". Not only the world but also "the Church" is siding more and more with those who have a demonic hatred of God's chosen nation and their right to live in His land.

You would be surprised how much money was given by churches to Palestinian "charities" that ended up in Arafat's personal account years ago. The larger portion of the western Church pretty much stands with the Palestinians against Israel, and this is due in part to viruently anti-Semitic theology that cannot accept that natural Israel is still God's chosen nation. It is not all unlike the "churches' in Europe that bowed the knee to Hitler. Now, they bow the knee to Islam.

It all depends on whether or not we BELIEVE the Word of God which came to Adam, to Noah, to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses and the prophets. The apostles believed it. But a great part of the Church does not.

Go figure.

It would be shocking to the Apostles to hear Christians claim that "the church is the new Israel." That is concept that is foreign to the Bible.

The apostles would excommunicate most of the Christian Church. This might sound wicked, but I can't wait to witness Peter excommunicating every Pope.

[Bold Believer]

1. What was Messiah's inheritance? The nations.

2. Did Jesus tell the Israeli leaders that Israel would be replaced? Yes he did.

"Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people, producing the fruit of it. (Mt 21:43)

3. Just before the Ascension, what did the Apostles ask Jesus?

Therefore, when they had come together, they asked Him, saying, "Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?" (Acts 1:6)

(This presupposes that the Kingdom had in fact been taken away from Israel.)

4. What was Jesus' response?

He said to them, "It is not for you to know times or epochs which the Father has fixed by His own authority; (Acts 1:7)

In other words...DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT, IT WILL HAPPEN WHEN THE FATHER SAYS IT WILL, which presupposes that at some point, the Jews will get the Kingdom back.

5. Daniel said that the saints of the Most High would receive the Kingdom and possess it forever and forever.

'But the saints of the Highest One will receive the kingdom and possess the kingdom forever, for all ages to come.' (Dan 7:18)

6. Daniel also said the little horn which came from the Fourth Beast would persecute (make war) on those saints for three and a half years UNTIL THE TIME THAT THEY WOULD POSSESS THE KINGDOM.

'He will speak out against the Most High and wear down the saints of the Highest One, and he will intend to make alterations in times and in law; and they will be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time. But the court will sit {for judgment,} and his dominion will be taken away, annihilated and destroyed forever. Then the sovereignty, the dominion and the greatness of {all} the kingdoms under the whole heaven will be given to the people of the saints of the Highest One; His kingdom {will be} an everlasting kingdom, and all the dominions will serve and obey Him.'

This persecution occurred just before the Jewish rebellion in 66 AD and overlaps it slightly. Revelation is all about the destruction of the Old Order and the giving over of the Kingdom to the Saints of the Most High. Nero did fight against and prevail over the Saints of the Most High, and Revelation states that the Kingdoms of this world (referring to the Roman Empire) had become the Kingdoms of our Lord Jesus. (It was an established fact to God that He HAD WON the battle.) Once Rome and apostate Israel were both dealt with, the battle was over. The saints of the Most High would reign, and so they did.

Has the Kingdom been restored to Israel? Only inasmuch as Israel responds to Messiah. I believe eventually the Jews will be brought back in, Paul seems to indicate it. It hasn't happened yet.

[Smalcald]

17 "Behold, I will create

new heavens and a new earth.

The former things will not be remembered,

nor will they come to mind.

18 But be glad and rejoice forever

in what I will create,

for I will create Jerusalem to be a delight

and its people a joy.

19 I will rejoice over Jerusalem

and take delight in my people;

the sound of weeping and of crying

will be heard in it no more.

20 "Never again will there be in it

an infant who lives but a few days,

or an old man who does not live out his years;

he who dies at a hundred

will be thought a mere youth;

he who fails to reach [a] a hundred

will be considered accursed.

21 They will build houses and dwell in them;

they will plant vineyards and eat their fruit.

22 No longer will they build houses and others live in them,

or plant and others eat.

For as the days of a tree,

so will be the days of my people;

my chosen ones will long enjoy

the works of their hands.

23 They will not toil in vain

or bear children doomed to misfortune;

for they will be a people blessed by the LORD,

they and their descendants with them.

24 Before they call I will answer;

while they are still speaking I will hear.

25 The wolf and the lamb will feed together,

and the lion will eat straw like the ox,

but dust will be the serpent's food.

They will neither harm nor destroy

on all my holy mountain,"

says the LORD.

[Smalcald]

3First of all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. 4They will say, "Where is this 'coming' he promised? Ever since our fathers died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation." 5But they deliberately forget that long ago by God's word the heavens existed and the earth was formed out of water and by water. 6By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. 7By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.

8But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 9The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

10But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be laid bare.[a]

11Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives 12as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming.That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. 13But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, the home of righteousness.

The nation state of Isreal, the United States, Russia, Africa, all of it; everything; will be utterly burned up and laid bare. Scripture says that the heavens will disappear with a roar, it says everything will be destroyed.

Yes a New heaven and a new earth will follow, the home of righteousness, but it has nothing to do with our grubby little land squables over property that scripture says will be destroyed.

[lekh l'kha]

Seems like most Christians only follow the rules of hermeneutics which their theologians created when it suits them. When it suits them, they will isolate certain passages of scripture and interpret them on their own, without reference to everything else the Word of God says about the same subject.

But it doesn't matter, because there aint no false theology more powerful than Jesus - not even nearly, and there aint no false doctrine or theology that's going to make God change His mind. It's all been pre-ordained before all time.

[Smalcald]

It certainly has.

All believers eagerly await the hope and promise of God of a New Heaven and new earth.

Jesus is the fulfillment of prophecy. God promised eternal life and an eternal Israel in Christ, we as gentiles should be extremely grateful to be grafted into this life and land.

But that land does not exist today, according to the scripture posted above and other scripture, the current earth will be destroyed.

[lekh l'kha]

3First of all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. 4They will say, "Where is this 'coming' he promised? Ever since our fathers died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation." 5But they deliberately forget that long ago by God's word the heavens existed and the earth was formed out of water and by water. 6By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. 7By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.

8But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 9The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

10But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be laid bare.[a]

11Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives 12as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming.That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. 13But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, the home of righteousness.

The nation state of Isreal, the United States, Russia, Africa, all of it; everything; will be utterly burned up and laid bare. Scripture says that the heavens will disappear with a roar, it says everything will be destroyed.

Yes a New heaven and a new earth will follow, the home of righteousness, but it has nothing to do with our grubby little land squables over property that scripture says will be destroyed.

Hello, Smalcald.

Looking at 2Peter 3, seems like there's no literal millennium, doesn't it?

Unfortunately this is the only passage in the entire Bible which seems to point in that direction.

Ever tried preacticing sound hermeneutics with regard to this passage and instead of isloating it from the rest of the Bible, looking at the Bible as one whole, and reading other passages which might shed light on 2Peter3's seeming absence of a millennium to follow the return of Christ?

Nope. Evidently you haven't.

I'll talk more about your fallacy tomorrow. Haven't got more time now. Have a good day.

Lekh.

[Guest shiloh357]

It certainly has.

All believers eagerly await the hope and promise of God of a New Heaven and new earth.

Jesus is the fulfillment of prophecy. God promised eternal life and an eternal Israel in Christ, we as gentiles should be extremely grateful to be grafted into this life and land.

But that land does not exist today, according to the scripture posted above and other scripture, the current earth will be destroyed.

See, none of that diminishes God's promises to Israel. The current earth will be renovated (not destroyed) but God's promises will not suddenly disappear with the current age we live in. The New Heavens and New Earth do not nullify God's promises to Israel.

I realize you have taken great pains in your posts to make those promises appear as unimportant an meaningless as possible, but your endeavors are fruitless.

[Smalcald]

It certainly has.

All believers eagerly await the hope and promise of God of a New Heaven and new earth.

Jesus is the fulfillment of prophecy. God promised eternal life and an eternal Israel in Christ, we as gentiles should be extremely grateful to be grafted into this life and land.

But that land does not exist today, according to the scripture posted above and other scripture, the current earth will be destroyed.

See, none of that diminishes God's promises to Israel. The current earth will be renovated (not destroyed) but God's promises will not suddenly disappear with the current age we live in. The New Heavens and New Earth do not nullify God's promises to Israel.

I realize you have taken great pains in your posts to make those promises appear as unimportant an meaningless as possible, but your endeavors are fruitless.

Why would you say that? I have not posted very much on this thread, mainly just some scripture.

Jesus IS the promise! What could be better than that? Are you somehow claiming that there is something better than Jesus? As long as we focus on Christ and His kingdom and not on this earth we are fine. But as scripture shows this earth is passing away, where is our treasure? Is our treasure in heaven or on this rotten sinful earth?