Australia not signing at Copenhagen

[Guest HIS girl]

Abbott throws out climate policy -

Opposition Leader Tony Abbott has dramatically thrown out the Liberal Party's policy on climate change and committed the first bungle of his leadership.

He has ruled out support for an emissions trading scheme (ETS) or a pollution tax - gutting the policy adopted by former prime minister John Howard and the man he deposed, Malcolm Turnbull.

Mr Abbott has backed bipartisan emissions targets, but he won't yet say how they could be achieved if he was elected to government.

Further, he has given no guarantees he will abide by any international agreement that comes out of climate change talks in Copenhagen.

The harder policy stance came after the first apparent policy bungle of his leadership, when he was forced to clarify exactly which targets he was standing by.

"The five per cent is an unconditional target, and that's what we are committed to," he told reporters in Canberra on Wednesday.

Asked to publicly back the higher end of the range - a 25 per cent reduction on carbon emissions if the world agrees on a deal - he said: "I'm just not going to go into that kind of specificity at this stage".

Hours later, his office had to reconfirm the coalition's support for the bipartisan target range.

But there's no doubt Mr Abbott, whose rise as leader of the federal opposition came on the back of his condemnation of the government's ETS, has abandoned his party's former position.

The coalition is no longer committed to the introduction of an ETS in Australia - the stance adopted under Mr Howard and Mr Turnbull.

This means the coalition is almost certain to vote down the government's carbon pollution reduction scheme (CPRS), also known as the ETS, when it is re-introduced into parliament next year in a third attempt to pass it into law.

"We won't have an ETS as part of our policy going to the next election, and we won't be having a tax as part of our policy going to the next election," Mr Abbott said.

"There's no doubt we've changed our policy on this.

"We have changed our policy on this, and we've changed our policy in response to what I think is a growing demand from the Australian people to see a contest in this area."

The government is worried Mr Abbott, who quoted experts when labelling emissions trading schemes "rubbish policy" and scams, could undo all its good work towards building a bipartisan position.

It has urged the coalition to explain how it plans to tackle global warming.

Mr Abbott's only guarantee after Copenhagen is that the coalition "won't be rushing to do anything that will put us at a competitive disadvantage vis-

[MelodyCat]

I just want to make this statement. Many of you have decided you know what I think or mean when I use the term Christian.

Well by your posts I can see you have made assumptions that are wrong.

First of all you are only a Christian if you have repented and received Christ. Then only God knows who are his and who are not. I don't have any spiritual powers to know who is saved. I can discern if someones behaviour is contrary to God's word and if they also verbally reject Christ then I would have to make the conclusion they really are not True Christians.

Many people say they are Christian because the belong to a denomination or believe there is a God yet have never repented and received Christ (I cannot know this I'm just making a statement to say there are people like this).

When someone claims to be a Christian I have to accept their claim as I don't know their hearts and I cannot judge other people's salvation.

I believe all true Christians who are part of the Body of Christ (there is only one body and it doesn't belong to any denomination it's head is Christ) can still act and behave in a sinful manner as we are not made perfect until we go to heaven. We are all being perfected here on Earth.

If a Christian is in my sphere of relationships I would be concerned by their behaviour and may if appropriate speak to them about it after some prayer. Otherwise all these Christians I have heard of and never met or have little to do with I leave them in the hands of God. I don't judge them (although I may have an opinion about their behaviour) as I too am not perfect and still sin. I have a prayer ethic. I like to hold up my brothers and sister before the Lord. Why waste my emotions, time and energy where I have no business or I am not in a position to do or say anything?

If Joe Hockey is a Christian I have not heard of this until now.

Second.

One again you have not read what I have previously written on Political Parties. I already pointed out that I know not one is clean or Godly. I stated I would not vote for the Greens as I do have a big problem with one of their policies (and so I should and it is one I cannot overlook or be easy with). I need to vote as I have been led in my conscience by the Lord. I do this prayerfully. We are required by law to vote here in Australia it is not an option and I believe I don't have a right to whine or whinge afterwards if I haven't voted, so I would not Donkey Vote either.

Since you haven't properly read what I have posted previously and rather than taking the time to ask me questions you have just made assumptions I'll leave it there.

We are all accountable for our own behaviours and decisions before the Lord during our lifetime. I cannot make your decisions and neither can you mine. I know that all of us are at different levels of spiritual maturity and some are more educated and some not and some have more spiritual discernment than others. God knows this and expects us to act and behave according to have we know and at the level of maturity we are, I understand and respect that. I don't try to apply my maturity and understanding on another brother or sister in Christ and then condemn them or judge them for not doing what I would do. We who are older and more mature in the Lord with love are to teach the younger believers, not condemn, slap over the wrist or judge when that is not your position of relationship with them. (Titus 2:1-10)

Telling me that all policital parties have some kind of policy against God's law is a belittling statement. Have you gone and looked at every political parties policies and come to that conclusion? (I doubt it). You just worry about your own voting decision and leave me to mine.

If you are happy or not happy about Tony Abbott getting the leadership then take it up wtih God. I personally didn't have anything to do with the voting outcome.

Again if you have bothered to read my posts you would have realised my view is I accepet that God is Soveriegn. No one comes to power unless God puts them there for a purpose. So it doesn't worry me who ends up in leadership positions as the will be used by the Lord for His purposes.

DA 2:21 He changes times and seasons;

he sets up kings and deposes them.

He gives wisdom to the wise

and knowledge to the discerning.

I do vote it is my right to do so. In the end I know the Lord will have His people in power. So I don't get worked up about what political party is in power. Even if the Greens got in and were successful changing the laws to allow what the Lord despises. I would be upset but I know God would still be able to rescue His children as He did Lot & his family from Sodom.

PS not angry or upset here I just like to dispel your assumptions about me which are wrong.

Andy

When I can get some articles together on the ETS I will post them under prophecy. It may take a bit of time to do so.

Mel

[Guest HIS girl]

MC - I wasn't casting any accustations against you or any party preference you may have - I was just commenting on these Christian pollies and you are absolutley right - only God knows their hearts...as He does ours.

About Joe Hockey, I also recently found out he was Christian and let's just say I was surprised.

[~candice~]

I just want to make this statement. Many of you have decided you know what I think or mean when I use the term Christian.

Well by your posts I can see you have made assumptions that are wrong.

Nope, I haven't made any assumptions. Can you point out what you mean? Perhaps you have misunderstood my replies.

First of all you are only a Christian if you have repented and received Christ. Then only God knows who are his and who are not. I don't have any spiritual powers to know who is saved. I can discern if someones behaviour is contrary to God's word and if they also verbally reject Christ then I would have to make the conclusion they really are not True Christians.

Many people say they are Christian because the belong to a denomination or believe there is a God yet have never repented and received Christ (I cannot know this I'm just making a statement to say there are people like this).

When someone claims to be a Christian I have to accept their claim as I don't know their hearts and I cannot judge other people's salvation.

I believe all true Christians who are part of the Body of Christ (there is only one body and it doesn't belong to any denomination it's head is Christ) can still act and behave in a sinful manner as we are not made perfect until we go to heaven. We are all being perfected here on Earth.

Yes, I agree with what you said above.

If a Christian is in my sphere of relationships I would be concerned by their behaviour and may if appropriate speak to them about it after some prayer. Otherwise all these Christians I have heard of and never met or have little to do with I leave them in the hands of God. I don't judge them (although I may have an opinion about their behaviour) as I too am not perfect and still sin. I have a prayer ethic. I like to hold up my brothers and sister before the Lord. Why waste my emotions, time and energy where I have no business or I am not in a position to do or say anything?

If Joe Hockey is a Christian I have not heard of this until now.

Second.

OK

One again you have not read what I have previously written on Political Parties. I already pointed out that I know not one is clean or Godly. I stated I would not vote for the Greens as I do have a big problem with one of their policies (and so I should and it is one I cannot overlook or be easy with). I need to vote as I have been led in my conscience by the Lord. I do this prayerfully. We are required by law to vote here in Australia it is not an option and I believe I don't have a right to whine or whinge afterwards if I haven't voted, so I would not Donkey Vote either.

Since you haven't properly read what I have posted previously and rather than taking the time to ask me questions you have just made assumptions I'll leave it there.

Actually I did read what you said! I simply vote a different way from you. I don't understand why your tone is so defensive. Has something in my replies offended you?

We are all accountable for our own behaviours and decisions before the Lord during our lifetime. I cannot make your decisions and neither can you mine. I know that all of us are at different levels of spiritual maturity and some are more educated and some not and some have more spiritual discernment than others. God knows this and expects us to act and behave according to have we know and at the level of maturity we are, I understand and respect that. I don't try to apply my maturity and understanding on another brother or sister in Christ and then condemn them or judge them for not doing what I would do. We who are older and more mature in the Lord with love are to teach the younger believers, not condemn, slap over the wrist or judge when that is not your position of relationship with them. (Titus 2:1-10)

I am not condemning you for voting differently to me.

You should vote how God leads you to vote, and I will do the same .

Telling me that all policital parties have some kind of policy against God's law is a belittling statement. Have you gone and looked at every political parties policies and come to that conclusion? (I doubt it). You just worry about your own voting decision and leave me to mine.

If you are happy or not happy about Tony Abbott getting the leadership then take it up wtih God. I personally didn't have anything to do with the voting outcome.

Again if you have bothered to read my posts you would have realised my view is I accepet that God is Soveriegn. No one comes to power unless God puts them there for a purpose. So it doesn't worry me who ends up in leadership positions as the will be used by the Lord for His purposes.

DA 2:21 He changes times and seasons;

he sets up kings and deposes them.

He gives wisdom to the wise

and knowledge to the discerning.

I do vote it is my right to do so. In the end I know the Lord will have His people in power. So I don't get worked up about what political party is in power. Even if the Greens got in and were successful changing the laws to allow what the Lord despises. I would be upset but I know God would still be able to rescue His children as He did Lot & his family from Sodom.

PS not angry or upset here I just like to dispel your assumptions about me which are wrong.

Andy

When I can get some articles together on the ETS I will post them under prophecy. It may take a bit of time to do so.

Mel

You sound either angry or offended. You keep making reference to me not reading your replies, and that's wrong. I have read what you wrote. I have also read ALOT of political policies, and I DO know that each party has a policy that doesn't please the Lord.

The message that I am getting from your post is that you feel as though one or more of my replies has been offensive towards you, and that I am not listening to you. Neither is true. Me expressing my dislike of Tony Abbott has nothing to do with you.

[Guest HIS girl]

There has definitley been some misunderstanding.

MC - no hard feelings - sometimes on discussion boards what we mean doesn't translate so well and can become misconstrued. Don't throw in the towel just yet!

On a more positive note, it's good to have more Aussies on WB.

Andy, I understand where you are coming from.

[~candice~]

There has definitley been some misunderstanding.

MC - no hard feelings - sometimes on discussion boards what we mean doesn't translate so well and can become misconstrued. Don't throw in the towel just yet!

On a more positive note, it's good to have more Aussies on WB.

Andy, I understand where you are coming from.

More Aussies on WB is always a good thing . We are outnumbered!!!

I wonder whether this upcoming election will be won or lost primarily on the ETS or whether there will be a secondary issue? Health Care? I hate elections!

[Guest HIS girl]

~andy~'

More Aussies on WB is always a good thing . We are outnumbered!!!

I wonder whether this upcoming election will be won or lost primarily on the ETS or whether there will be a secondary issue? Health Care? I hate elections!

Well it would seem to be the ETS at the moment but you know the media, if they want something to be prominant over other issues, they will run with it.

Health care should most definitely be a shared primary issue as well as aged care and their facilities - health in Nth QLD is nearing third world conditions, under funded, under staffed, the risks to patients and staff is huge - in desperate need of hospital upgrades...the list goes on and on.

Just last week, the brother of my friend needed surgery but it was cancelled on THE scheduled morning because of lack of beds - get this, the remaining beds in the hospital were occupied by senior citizens because of lack of beds in retirement homes!!

.

[Guest HIS girl]

Have you guys been following the events at Copenhagen?

The press is awaiting the arrival of Obama and folks are looking to him as some kind of saviour of the summit.

[~candice~]

Have you guys been following the events at Copenhagen?

The press is awaiting the arrival of Obama and folks are looking to him as some kind of saviour of the summit.

Copenhagen is a waste of carbon-offset air miles . Nothing will come of it. And if I see kruddy bow down to Obama one more time.......

[Guest HIS girl]

'~andy~'

Copenhagen is a waste of carbon-offset air miles . Nothing will come of it. And if I see kruddy bow down to Obama one more time.......

Ditto and ditto!!