Communion - Bread and Wine

[Botz]

I know I am saved by grace, and forgiven...I know all that...but for the life of me I can never *feel* good enough to be at that table. Somtimes the Lord really pushes me to take communion, in the starngest ways:>) But for the most part I do not because I cannot measure up. Not a healthy way of thinking, I know...that is why I am asking all these questions and trying to get this all straightened out in my own life:>)

Hello BFP...Just reading some of what you have written here makes me realise how much guilt can ruin a joyful and victorious walk with the L-rd. My impression is that you may know quite a lot about what Scripture says, but the reality of it being effective in your life because you actually mix it with faith and trust G-d is not always apparent.

I would say you need to get a personal revelation on what is and isn't required of you regarding what people call 'Communion' and then believe G-d, and kick your past guilt trips into touch by the power of the Holy Ghost...and at the same time believe G-d to help you give up smoking..usually the key to breaking addictions is to really not want them in your life any longer....eg 'let him who stole, steal no more'.

The L-rd open your eyes to the well of grace from which we can all freely draw, may He refresh your spirit, order your steps and stir up in you a determination to be an overcomer by the very grace and mercy of G-d. Botz

[m^3]

Under the New Covenant Passover commemorates the death of Yahshua and our deliverance from sin (1 Cor.11:26). In the Exodus Covenant it was the deliverance of the people from physical bondage. This world is a type of Egypt and anybody who came out of it came out of Egypt. At the death and resurrection of Yahshua the law passed from its physical dimension to its spiritual dimension. Yahshua commanded us to continue to celebrate this memorial until He returns (Luke 22:19). Christ gave us an example to follow (1 Pr.2:21; 1 John 2:6). A memorial is a monument or a holiday designed or established to serve as a remembrance of a person or an event. It comes and is celebrated only once a year. The Passover in the Jewish New Covenant Books (Brit Hadasah), commonly called New Testament, is the continuity of the Old Covenant Passover in the Torah, but with new symbols: the bread to replace the flesh of the lamb, the vine to replace the blood. Before the Original Doctrine was perverted in Europe, Yahweh's apostles observed Yahweh's Passover annually (1 Cor.5:7; 11: 23-6; Exod. 12:1-18). No one has the right to change its season, "Thou shall therefore keep this ordinance in its season from year to year."(Exod.13:10). Mashiach kept it when its time came (Luke 2:42; 22:14). Yahweh said to keep the feast forever "throughout your generations", "for you and your sons forever" (Ex. 12). He who claims it is abolished (Mat.17:17) is a liar and the truth is not in Him. "Let the children of Israel keep the Passover at its appointed time" (Num. 9:2). Yahweh appointed the time, not Moses. Yahshua says, "I have kept My father's commandments and abide in His love (John 15:10). The Father says, "Whatever I command you, be careful to observe it; you shall not add to it nor take away from it."(Deut.12:32) Yahshua never kept Communion or so-called Lord Supper or the erroneous Eucharist, but Passover. Read the Four Evangels. But many, laying aside the commandments of Yahweh, prefer to hold the tradition of men (Mark 7:8),throwing their loyalty behind ignorant religious leaders who cannot understand. All documents from the Catholic Church, all historians, and biblical scholars, testify that early believers, up to the seventh century, continued to keep the apostolic tradition. But the law was abrogated by the Western Church and Constantine in the years 313 and 325.

Our Passover is the first day of Seven Days of Unleavened Bread. The Days of Unleavened Bread symbolize our coming out of Egypt, staying away from sin (leaven), putting off pride, embracing humility and purification. For seven days we dedicate ourselves to Yahweh. We show our sincerity to follow Yahshua, 1 Cor.5: 6-7.

[m^3]

I found the following article on line and it sooo mush better explains what I could not articulate that well:

The festival of the Passover has been celebrated by Jews for thousands of years. It is the retelling of the great story of how God redeemed the Jewish nation from enslavement in Egypt.1 The celebration itself was given to the Jews while they were still in Egypt.2 The original celebration centered around the Passover lamb, which was sacrificed and its blood put over the doorposts as a sign of faith, so that the Lord passed over the houses of the Jews during the last plague poured out on the Egyptians - the killing of every firstborn.3 To a large degree, the Passover lamb has been eliminated from the Passover festival (with the only remnant being the roasted lamb shank bone).4 The New Testament says that Jesus is our sacrificial Lamb.5 The Passover lamb was to be a "male without defect,"6 which is the same description given to Jesus.7 In addition, when the lamb was roasted and eaten, none of its bones were to be broken.8 This fact was also prophesized for the Messiah, whose bones were not to be broken.9 It was customary during crucifixion to break the leg bones of the person after a few hours in order to hasten their death. The only way a person could breathe when hanging on a cross was to push up with his legs, which was very exhausting. By breaking the legs, death followed soon by asphyxiation. However, in the case of Jesus, they broke the legs of the other two men, but did not break His, since He was already dead.10Much of the symbolism of Jesus' last Passover week is lost to us because we are unaware of the customs of the time. For example, Jesus came into the city of Jerusalem five days before the lamb was killed in the temple as the Passover sacrifice for the sins of the people of Israel. Five days before the lamb was to be sacrificed, it was chosen. Therefore, Jesus entered Jerusalem on lamb selection day as the lamb of God.11 The people did not understand the significance of this, since they greeted Him with palm branches12 and hailed Him as King,13 shouting "Hosanna,"14 which means "save us." However, they were not looking for a spiritual Savior, but a political savior. Palm branches were a symbol of freedom and defiance, since Simon Maccabeus had entered Jerusalem with that symbolism.15 Jesus' reaction was to weep,16 since He realized that they did not understand the Messiah's purpose in coming. Good Friday was the day of the Passover celebration and the day that the Passover lamb was to be sacrificed. For the previous 1,200 years, the priest would blow the shophar (ram's horn) at 3:00 p.m. - the moment the lamb was sacrificed, and all the people would pause to contemplate the sacrifice for sins on behalf of the people of Israel. On Good Friday at 3:00,17 when Jesus was being crucified, He said, "It is finished"18 - at the moment that the Passover lamb was sacrificed and the shophar was blown from the Temple. The sacrifice of the lamb of God was fulfilled at the hour that the symbolic animal sacrifice usually took place. At the same time, the veil of the Temple (a three-inch thick, several story high cloth that demarked the Holy of Holies19) tore from top to bottom20 - representing a removal of the separation between God and man. Fifty days later, on the anniversary of the giving of the law (Pentecost), God left the earthly temple to inhabit those who call on the name of Jesus through His Holy Spirit.21Christian symbolism in the Passover occurs early in the Seder (the Passover dinner). Three matzahs are put together (representing the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit). The middle matzah is broken, wrapped in a white cloth, and hidden, representing the death and burial of Jesus. The matzah itself is designed to represent Jesus, since it is striped and pierced, which was prophesized by Isaiah, David, and Zechariah. Following the Seder meal, the "buried" matzah is "resurrected," which was foretold in the prophecies of David. It was during a Passover seder that Jesus proclaimed that the meal represented Himself and that He was instituting the New Covenant, which was foretold by Jeremiah, Ezekiel, and Isaiah. The celebration of this covenant has become the ordinance of communion in the Christian Church. At the end of the meal, Jesus took the unleavened bread, broke it, and said that it represented His body. Then He took the cup of wine, which would have been the third cup of the Seder - the cup of redemption. He said that it was the new covenant in His blood "poured out for you." It is through the sacrificial death and resurrection of Jesus Christ that we are declared clean before God, allowing those of us who choose to accept the pardon, to commune with Him - both now and forevermore through the eternal life He offers.

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/p...ml#sLwlegiX44iR

[Botz]

Hello M^3...Interesting read, thanks.

I certainly do not believe that what passes for Communion in most Churches has very much resemblance to the original institution...especially as many Churches are so divorced from their Hebrew roots that they are unable to place the L-rd's Supper in the right Biblical context (in relation to Pesach/Passover) and happily and unwittingly use leavened bread.

Two points which are worth looking from both your posts, simply for better clarification and friendly reasoning:-

1. The first is that the institution of the L-rds Supper, seemed to be enjoyed beyond the confines of the yearly festival of Pesach...and what often initiated it was the gathering together of the Church to eat...where I presume Matzo and wine were consumed as a memorial, and they were perfectly at liberty to do this when it pleased them to do so.

17 But in giving this instruction, I do not praise you, because you come together not for the better but for the worse. 18 For, in the first place, when you come together as a church, I hear that divisions exist among you; and in part I believe it. 19 For there must also be factions among you, so that those who are approved may become evident among you. 20 Therefore when you meet together, it is not to eat the Lord

[~Shalhevet~]

Interesting m^3. I have been looking for info to celebrate the Passover next year. Thanks.

[Thankful 1]

The Holy Spirit told me the Eucharist is truly the Body and Blood of Jesus.

[JCISGD]

"As often as you come together, do this in remeberance of Me". I think that makes what m^3 is saying wrong? Celebrating communion is not a once a year event but weekly on the Lords Day, or more often perhaps?

The bread and juice are common everyday symbols of Christ`s giving and sustaining of life.

Early Eskimo`s would have used a peice of fish and ice water.

[Guest shiloh357]

The Holy Spirit told me the Eucharist is truly the Body and Blood of Jesus.

"A" spirit may have told you that, but it was not the Holy Spirit.

You are speaking of transubstantiation which is later doctrine that the RCC retroactively interprets into the Bible. It was originally put forth by Ambrose. The elements of communion serve to remind us of the price Jesus paid for our sins. They are not mystically transformed into the literal body and blood of Jesus. That is nothing but mystical lore and is not found anywhere in Scripture.

[Guest Butero]

Okay...I am NOT a new Christian...I'm a preachers kid brought up in a Brethren church and currently attend another non denominational church. In my life as Christian I have always been confused by communion. In the Brethren churches it is a very closed meeting that takes place before the 'family bible hour' meeting. In the 'closed' meeting they partake of bread and wine every Sunday, and that is when offering is taken as well. You must be baptised to take part in this meeting, and there is more...living your life to a certain standard before God. If you have been convicted of a sin such as molesting a child or something big like that you would be told that you cannot attend the closed communion meeting.

In the church I attend now, and in most churches today the communion is open to all and no questions are asked. But doesn't the Bible tell us somewhere that to do it this way can make the congregation sick? I have a huge hang up with communion and really search myslef well before partaking...and most times do not partake. Sometimes GOd slaps me upside the head and TELLS me to take of it, but most times I am just confused about wether I will be causing more harm thatn good by taking it (heart not in the right place, rough week, sins in the previous week (not big ones, but sins nonetheless) )

Anyway I know there are some wise people on here from many denominations...what is your take...when should, or shouldn't one partake in communion?

We should examine ourselves before partaking of communion, and we should take it with great reverence, remembering what it is about. Remember that if we confess our sins, God is faithful to forgive us and cleanse us of all unrighteousness. As long as your heart is right with God, you should take communion with no fear of getting sick or even dying as a result of doing so unworthilly.

[Thankful 1]

The Holy Spirit told me the Eucharist is truly the Body and Blood of Jesus.

"A" spirit may have told you that, but it was not the Holy Spirit.

You are speaking of transubstantiation which is later doctrine that the RCC retroactively interprets into the Bible. It was originally put forth by Ambrose. The elements of communion serve to remind us of the price Jesus paid for our sins. They are not mystically transformed into the literal body and blood of Jesus. That is nothing but mystical lore and is not found anywhere in Scripture.

Before you start telling someone else what sprit he or she may be listening to, you should know what you are talking about at least.

You could say that you do think God would tell some one this or that, but who are you that you know so much? Is it your job to tell everyone if they are listening to God or not? You have an opinion and on forums that are OK to express, but unless it is scripture all it is; is opinion.

Scripture says the Eucharist is the Body and Blood of Jesus. Now what that means should be left up to what Jesus tells each of us.

Do you think it matters to God if one believes the Eucharist is transubstantiation or not?

You made an assumption about what I believe, and had the nerve to say I was listening to a wrong spirit. That is one true insult. Is that kind of language allowed on this forum?

I wish I did believe in transubstantiation, because you believe it is so wrong. Do you realize the largest Christian Church says you are wrong?

In your opinion all those people are listening to the wrong spirit, is that right?

As you can see having people tell me I am listening to the wrong spirit is not taken lightly by me.

I have had a close personal relationship with Jesus for over thirty years, and he is my God, and my Lord. Everything I do is in and through him.