Trinity

[Guest yod]

It is a mystery that cannot be fully understood, but then we are not meant to understand it; we are simply expected to believe it.

this is the most true statement in the whole thread and the basis of my reasons for avoiding it.

If it can't be understood then what is the point of trying to explain it to someone who doesn't have the advantage of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit? And if one does have that, then why is it necessary in the first place to state a belief in a "doctrine" which isn't mentioned as being necessary in the scriptures?

If I say I believe that God is One, that He is God, that Yeshua is equally God/Man, and the Holy Spirit is the agent that speaks for Him...then why would it be necessary or important to then ascent to a "doctrine" drawn up on paper complete with creed (and penalty) hundreds of years after the scriptures were closed?

[Guest shiloh357]

this is the most true statement in the whole thread and the basis of my reasons for avoiding it.

There is a lot about God I don't understand, but how is that grounds for avoiding them?? What we are to avoid is trying to fill in the gaps of our understanding with human reasoning and logic. False teachings arise when we try to go farther than we have been given the light to go.

If it can't be understood then what is the point of trying to explain it to someone who doesn't have the advantage of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit?

If an unbeliever asks, all we can do is answer the question honestly and explain that it is a mystery. I don't think we are expected to engage in protracted debates with unbelievers about it. Most people who are reasonable will accept an honest "I don't know." A reasonable person will also respect the honesty.

And if one does have that, then why is it necessary in the first place to state a belief in a "doctrine" which isn't mentioned as being necessary in the scriptures?

Simply because it is true. It is not necessary within the context of salvation, but that does mean it is not necessary in other contexts. One does not have to know about the virgin birth of Jesus to be saved, but it is still necessary to know in order to be grounded scripturally. The operation of the Godhead is the same way.

If I say I believe that God is One, that He is God, that Yeshua is equally God/Man, and the Holy Spirit is the agent that speaks for Him...then why would it be necessary or important to then ascent to a "doctrine" drawn up on paper complete with creed (and penalty) hundreds of years after the scriptures were closed?

I am not defending any creeds or penalties for not agreeing to said creed. I don't live by any of the creeds so they really mean nothing to me.

A teaching or doctrine of the Godhead was formulated as a defense against heresies and there were plenty of them early on. The problem is that people have charatized this as just a bunch of religious people getting together and creating doctrines in order to enslave everyone to a particular belief; but, that was not really the case. The early church was being infected with a host of false, heretical teachings and with no established statement as to what Christianity is, anyone could teach whatever they wanted under the canopy of "Christian." That is the context of why a formulation of how the Godhead operates was necessary.

[Smalcald]

The early church was being infected with a host of false, heretical teachings and with no established statement as to what Christianity is, anyone could teach whatever they wanted under the canopy of "Christian." That is the context of why a formulation of how the Godhead operates was necessary.

Sounds like today.

[exrockstar]

I worship the God Shiloh has described above that is who I pray to, if someone does not worship that God, they worship a different God than I do and they may be wonderful wonderful people, but they are not my brothers in Christ they are of a different faith.

this sounds a little demon influenced.

there is a conversation happening and you decided to draw a line on the sand and place yourself with Shiloh.

not that that a bad thing but you're doing is an us verses them conversation.

this isn't about "us verses them" but about educating one another.

just sayin

[Smalcald]

I worship the God Shiloh has described above that is who I pray to, if someone does not worship that God, they worship a different God than I do and they may be wonderful wonderful people, but they are not my brothers in Christ they are of a different faith.

this sounds a little demon influenced.

there is a conversation happening and you decided to draw a line on the sand and place yourself with Shiloh.

not that that a bad thing but you're doing is an us verses them conversation.

this isn't about "us verses them" but about educating one another.

just sayin

That is correct it is a line in the sand and I do place myself with scripture (which Shiloh has described very well) concerning WHO Jesus is, kind of an elemental question about who is a believer or not.

But just literally take out my loaded terms and heavy handedness which I apologize for; but if someone does not worship the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, they worship a different God than the God of scripture and a different God than I worship how could they be of the same faith? Is that demon possessed to say? Maybe it sounds jerky, this I would allow, but I don't think it is demon possessed.

Like I said this is about what our faith is, it is about WHO we are worshiping, how could a question be less important than that? I mean lets say we are having a civil polite conversation with a Muslim, educating each other. The Muslim says, well I believe in the God of Abraham, I believe that Jesus was His prophet and indeed sits with Him in heaven, (which Muslims do believe), but he says look it is blaspheme to equate Jesus with God to make Him into a God. Is it demon possessed to tell Him well we do not worship the same God as you do not worship the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. It is more just stating a fact.