The place of the prophet in the new testament.

[Scudbuddy]

Scudbuddy,

Can I ask you this; Was D.W. making his own prediction, or was he implying that God spoke to him directly? The difference is this. If God told David Wilkerson that something was going to happen and it did not happen, then either God was lying or David got the message wrong. Now since God can't, and doesn't lie, something is wrong somewhere. If we are to believe that prophets can make mistakes, as someone suggested, why should we believe the likes of Isaiah or Daniel or anyone else for that matter. When someone, even DW, says " the Lord said to me" I always think, "oh yeah". Do you want a list of names, well known names, of people that reckon that God speaks to them? I have a lot of respect for David as a teacher and a preacher and a very Godly man, but a prophet? Not for me. I've seen too many so-called prophets screw up with their prophecies including Hal Lindsey and too many more to mention. All the prophecies that you want to know and need to know are already in the bible. Are you implying that God left something out and forgot to tell us. You tune in to TBN and you'll have prophets up to your eyeballs.

that's all.

Eric,

In "The Vision", DW claims to had many earth-shaking visions of what was to come. A few of them did come true such as the Killer Bees. (Although it had been known they were coming for years when he said so.) These visions he claimed to have recieved while in prayer. Get the book. The ones I hold him responsible for are the ones that are time-dated. He never gave a specific date, but would at times say "within the next few years." These events never happened, and this book was written in the 70's. I also feel that because DW has actually been critical of many other ministries who miss it, that he is now open for such criticism.

In spite of all that, he has a valid evangelistic ministry, and he has kept his books clean and has never used manipulative practices to get money. I do believe he is a man of God. I was offered a posistion by one of his sons to work in New York city years and years ago. I did not take it.

My point is that to have a 100% stance is going to kill alot of people we respect. The only ministries that are not guilty of missing it at one time or another are those who don't practice prophecy. In fact, I challenge anyone on this forum to name one person living today who hasn't missed it, that prophecied often. Just one.

I love and appreciate Paul Cain. I have never seen such accuracy on the level that that man prophecies. I have seen him predict a flood when every weather man was shouting drought. And He spoke of it happening when the meetings were over. And the worst flood to hit since 1908 came as soon as the meetings were over. That is the prophetic at a whole nother level.

And yet I have seen him miss it once. Just once, and I am not sure as to why since he has been so accurate every other time. (I should make a disclaimer that it could have had something to do with people praying, since he did make that disclaimer that unless people prayed, a particular disaster would take place.)

I am not going to call that man a false prophet.

RT Kendall published an article against Paul once before he came to England. RT had a complete change of heart after Paul met with him. Especially after Paul read RTs mail. (RT had been given some erroneous information, that was totally false concerning Pauls past. Leonard Ravenhill intervened and brought the two together. Leonard loved Paul, and promoted his ministry heavily. They often spoke together at conferences. Paul would bring the power, and when the peoples eyes got on Paul instead of Jesus, Paul would withdraw and sic LR on them. Me included. David Ravenhill told us we were lucky. In LRs earlier days, you needed an asbestos suit to sit in the first 3 rows when his dad preached. LR by the way was DWs mentor.)

This posistion of 100% accuracy is a killer of the gift. We are not writing scripture. We are not talking about the "Office of the Prophet." We are talking about using a gift properly by learning how to do it. The bible shows us that there were "Schools of prophets." Schools are learning enviornments. Samuel needed instruction to identify Gods voice. Nebula quoted Nathans missing it.

And something else that hasn't been mentioned to my knowledge. There is also the "Jonah factor." When God says something is going to happen, but changes His mind due to the response of the hearers. There are so many different factors like this that makes it very difficult to fill the posistion of "Stone Thrower."

And as I have shown earlier by asking "Would you throw the first stone." This generation unlike the Pharisees of Jesus time, have no problem throwing it. If they lived in a theocracy, where the law allowed, that babys flying. I find it dangerous to be in the negative light of those Pharisees.

[stevehut]

And yet even then Samuel and Elisha had a "School of Prophets."

Where can I find this? I see some references in the OT, to a "company of prophets". Is this the same thing?

[stevehut]

Got a stupid question here.

Some in here have said that the "proof" of a prophet is 100% accuracy. Accuracy, in terms of what?

[stevehut]

I do know of a school 5 hours north of me that does teach how to hear God.

Isn't this something that every believer should be able to do?

[Scudbuddy]

Steve,

Some versions have company, and some have school.

The accuracy question is this. If they prophecy, every word to them must be right on or they are a false prophet who deserves to be stoned. I believe it is a gift that is learned. We are not in the business of writing canonized scripture, and as long as we are wording the prophecy with a preface of "I believe the Lord is saying this" and are open to Him not saying that, then we are covered by grace to learn this gift as we practice it. But others want it to be a gift that we are fully mature in before we open our mouths.

Third question. Yes. "My sheep hear my voice." But like Samuel, sometimes we think we are hearing something else. That is why we need Eli's to help us understand and discern. It takes time.

[stevehut]

Some versions have company, and some have school.

OK, that's what I thought.

Then maybe this "school" is not quite the same as a "college". Maybe it just means the "group" of prophets that met together. As far as I can tell (in the Bible), there's no indication of "students" and "teachers".

Of course, it was not unusual for one man to mentor another, such Eli and Samuel, Elijah and Elisha. But the idea of an "academy" for prophets would be much different.

[stevehut]

The accuracy question is this. If they prophecy, every word to them must be right on or they are a false prophet who deserves to be stoned.

I don't think you understood my question.

Much prophecy in the Bible has to do with foretelling future events. But the prophecies of the OT were not always fulfilled in the prophet's own lifetime. Moses spoke about Jesus, but Jesus was not born until centuries later.

Also, prophecy means "a message from God", which is not always about foretelling future events. Not always easy to verify such things.

[Scudbuddy]

What is a "mentor"? but a teacher! Elijah-Elisha. Eli-Samuel. Several of the minor prophets were mentored. When we are commanded to make disciples, what is that about? It is not just about getting them saved, but teaching them how to live a holy life, and to stick with it. To teach them what we know. We are all in an enviornment of learning. No one just suddenly gets the gift, and is a mature wielder of it automatically. Anyone who has ever done any ministry can tell you that they are better at it because of the experience of learning over time. Why is the prophetic any different? It isn't.

[Scudbuddy]

The accuracy question is this. If they prophecy, every word to them must be right on or they are a false prophet who deserves to be stoned.

I don't think you understood my question.

Much prophecy in the Bible has to do with foretelling future events. But the prophecies of the OT were not always fulfilled in the prophet's own lifetime. Moses spoke about Jesus, but Jesus was not born until centuries later.

Also, prophecy means "a message from God", which is not always about foretelling future events. Not always easy to verify such things.

That last line is very good.

[stevehut]

Cool your jets, Scud.

I was simply addressing the idea of a "school" of prophets. I don't think it was a place with classrooms and desks. Nothing more.