Why didn't the Jews believe the Jews?

[nebula]

I'm talking about like in the temple..these are practicing Jews.....and John the Baptist dad comes out and can't talk because an Angel was upset with him and told him of his son being great and comng in the spirit of elijah...preparing the way for Almighty God... It just doesn't seem like much celebration...and much excitement...

Well, in reading the passage:

Luke 1

21 The people were waiting for Zacharias, and were wondering at his delay in the temple. 22 But when he came out, he was unable to speak to them; and they realized that he had seen a vision in the temple ; and he kept making signs to them, and remained mute.

Because he couldn't talk, he wasn't able to explain what was spoken to him by the angel - in fact, it is not clear that the people realized he saw an angel. It only says they realized he had seen a "vision" - but that could have meant almost anything.

Even after John was born, even though word spread, no one truly understood what this child would grow up to be.

65 Fear came on all those living around them; and all these matters were being talked about in all the hill country of Judea. 66 All who heard them kept them in mind, saying, "What then will this child turn out to be?" For the hand of the Lord was certainly with him.

The jews should have been dancing in the streets..all of them across the nation....Jews prophesied about Jesus at this time...y wouldn't u believe your own prophesys...I mean if Angels are amongst you...wouldn't you know something big was on the horizon

But they didn't know what.

And after 30 or more years . . . people tend to forget.

...when Moses and Elijah are around and a loud voice says...this is my son...whom I love...believe what he tells you...I know only a couple were there...but that is fascinating...isn't it...that puts ghost hunters to shame..

True, but like you said, only three disciples saw this - and they kept it to themselves.

Matt. 17:9 - As they were coming down from the mountain, Jesus commanded them, saying, "Tell the vision to no one until the Son of Man has risen from the dead."

and even if you had doubts...and watched him crucified...afterwards

when the temple split...dead people walking around...I wonder what those dead saints said...had they been in Hell...or the ground...

I would not have cared what my leaders were telling me...I would have said...I've seen and heard enough...I believe...that is enough evidence..

Remember what Jesus said?

Luke 16:31 - "But he said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead.' "

imagine this day and age...it would have been broadcast across the world...

And when they see the coming of the Lord, the entire world will gather in Israel to fight against Him. Think about that.

[other one]

If you talk about the curse on the non believing jewish people...your labeled a jew hater....but my question still never gets answered....Why didn't the Jews believe the Jews? If he would have been a Gentile..it is easy to understand their hate for him...but he was a jew..

Miracle after Miracle, Angels visiting Jews and telling them Jesus was here and on the way...much supernatural activity...Angels showing up for the resurrection...

Then to really slap them in the face...Jesus Supernatural raises up Paul a Jew...a christian hater and murderer...and he is a follower of Jesus Christ....

It really is hard to understand ...don't jews trust jews...

I mean Mary was a jew...a blessed highly favored woman of God...I mean reading it in the Holy Word......you can't help to wonder...what were they thinking?

What would have it taken to get them to believe in Jesus? They asked for signs and he did miracle after miracle...They put soldiers at the tomb and he still rose...he attended funerals and he brought people back to life...I know the bible says they were envious of Jesus..but why...he was one of them..a jew..why were't they proud of him?

Luke 20:9-16

Then He began to tell the people this parable: "A certain man planted a vineyard, leased it to vinedressers, and went into a far country for a long time. 10 Now at vintage-time he sent a servant to the vinedressers, that they might give him some of the fruit of the vineyard. But the vinedressers beat him and sent him away empty-handed. 11 Again he sent another servant; and they beat him also, treated him shamefully, and sent him away empty-handed. 12 And again he sent a third; and they wounded him also and cast him out.

13 "Then the owner of the vineyard said, 'What shall I do? I will send my beloved son. Probably they will respect him when they see him.' 14 But when the vinedressers saw him, they reasoned among themselves, saying, 'This is the heir. Come, let us kill him, that the inheritance may be ours.' 15 So they cast him out of the vineyard and killed him . Therefore what will the owner of the vineyard do to them? 16 He will come and destroy those vinedressers and give the vineyard to others."

NKJV

I think too many people listened to their religious leaders (who had their own agenda's as Shilo states) instead of to the Word of the Lord. They heard the word read every week in the synagogues and should have known better from their own minds, but as too many do today, they listen to their preachers and priests and when they say things or do things against the word, they too often side with the human instead of the word of God.

[Press Forward]

Luke 20:9-16

Then He began to tell the people this parable: "A certain man planted a vineyard, leased it to vinedressers, and went into a far country for a long time. 10 Now at vintage-time he sent a servant to the vinedressers, that they might give him some of the fruit of the vineyard. But the vinedressers beat him and sent him away empty-handed. 11 Again he sent another servant; and they beat him also, treated him shamefully, and sent him away empty-handed. 12 And again he sent a third; and they wounded him also and cast him out.

13 "Then the owner of the vineyard said, 'What shall I do? I will send my beloved son. Probably they will respect him when they see him.' 14 But when the vinedressers saw him, they reasoned among themselves, saying, 'This is the heir. Come, let us kill him, that the inheritance may be ours.' 15 So they cast him out of the vineyard and killed him . Therefore what will the owner of the vineyard do to them? 16 He will come and destroy those vinedressers and give the vineyard to others."

NKJV

I think too many people listened to their religious leaders (who had their own agenda's as Shilo states) instead of to the Word of the Lord. They heard the word read every week in the synagogues and should have known better from their own minds, but as too many do today, they listen to their preachers and priests and when they say things or do things against the word, they too often side with the human instead of the word of God.

I think your right... And I do believe the church is following the same footsteps by listening to many corrupt leaders. History repeats itself. And as many miracles and supernatural activity that the jews had...we have no excuse because the Holy Word has been printed and distributed in every language, translated into versions third graders can understand. The fear and trembling of Jesus Christ...doesn't fit the present day picture of him... Look what he has allowed to happen to Israel the past 2000 years. That many people believe is the apple of his eye and chosen.

[lekh l'kha]

The Jews understood that the Messiah is the One the prophets said would:

1. Be the antitype of David who would save the people from their enemies ("the nations") by judging their enemies who would gather against Jerusalem in a day following the regathering of the seed of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob to the land the King of heaven and earth promised their father Abraham as his/their eternal inheritance.

2. Be the antitype of Joseph who would be betrayed by his brothers, and suffer and die for his people.

Many Jews (though not all) did not want a Messiah who would fulfill the second aspect of the prophecies - they wanted a Messiah who would fulfill the first aspect of the prophecies. As a result, they have been blinded to the second aspect of the prophecies, just as many Gentile Christians have been blinded to the first aspect by their own theology.

It's not too difficult to imagine:

The prophecies stated that the Messiah would judge the nations but save Israel in the day the armies of all the nations gather against Jerusalem, setting His feet on the Mount of Olives:

"For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle;...

... Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east,... (Zec 14: 3-4)

Instead of what they expected, Jesus told His apostles that He had NOT come as this triumphant, conquering king the prophets had foretold and He was NOT going to judge the nations - instead, He would be handed over to the nations and be put to death by them.

Then He told them that Jerusalem was NOT at that time to become exalted among the nations while their Messiah ruled over the nations with a rod of iron from His throne in Jerusalem:

"Ask of Me, and I shall give the nations for Your inheritance; and the uttermost parts of the earth for Your possession. You shall break them with a rod of iron; You shall dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel." (Psa 2:8-9).

Compare Rev.12: 5 and Rev.2: 26-29:

"And she bore a son, a male, who is going to rule all nations with a rod of iron. And her child was caught up to God and to His throne."

(Rev 12:5)

"And he who overcomes and keeps My works to the end, to him I will give power over the nations. And he will rule them with a rod of iron, as the vessels of a potter they will be broken to pieces, even as I received from My Father. And I will give him the Morning Star. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches." (Rev 2:26-29).

Then Jesus told them that He was NOT going to save the Jews from their enemies by destroying the nations when they gather against Jerusalem - instead, Jerusalem woud be destroyed (instead of the nations), and the Jews would "fall by the edge of the sword and be led away captive into all nations, and that Jerusalem would be tread underfoot by the nations UNTIL the times of the Gentiles is fulfillled" (Luk.21: 24).

This must have seemed to the Jews to negate the first aspect mentioned above of what all the prophets had prophesied concerning the Messiah, and they could not see the second aspect.

How could they? It's very easy WITH HINDSIGHT to understand that the Messiah would die, rise again and ascend into heaven, the Messiah "whom heaven must receive UNTIL the time of the restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of His holy prophets since the world began." (Act 3:21). But how could they understand then?

This was all BAD NEWS, BAD NEWS, BAD NEWS to the apostles and disciples of Jesus - where was the good news? The disciples and apostles must have felt quite exasperated, because Jesus often seemed to give cryptic answers to their many questions.

Then to top it all, He dropped another bombshell - His disciples themselves were not going to rule all nations with Him:

"Then they will deliver you up to be afflicted and will kill you. And you will be hated of all nations for My name's sake.... And then many will be offended, and will betray one another, and will hate one another.... And this gospel of the kingdom shall be proclaimed in all the world as a witness to all nations. And then the end shall come." (Mat 24:9-10, 14).

And then He died.

The apostles must have felt grief beyond belief - Israel's only hope had come - and the Jewish leaders themselves had handed Him over to Gentiles to be killed. All hope was lost.

BUT THEN HE ROSE AGAIN FROM THE DEAD!!!!

Imagine what they must have been thinking when, 40 days later, they were standing with Him on THE MOUNT OF OLIVES - the very spot the prophets said He would set His feet when he came to judge the nations which would gather against Jerusalem - and they would have the privilege of being His soldiers!

"... Then, indeed, these coming together, they asked Him, saying, Lord, do You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?"

And He said to them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father has put in His own authority. But you shall receive power, the Holy Spirit coming upon you. And you shall be witnesses to Me both in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and in Samaria, and to the end of the earth."

"And saying these things, as they watched, He was taken up. And a cloud received Him out of their sight." (Act 1:6-9)

Imagine the look of shock, bewilderment, awe, amazement and puzzlement on their faces as they stood their on the Mount of Olives watching Israel's Messiah ascend to heaven.

"... And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven. Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey." (Act 1:10-12).

Not long afterwards, after the Day of Pentecost and filled with the Holy Spirit, Peter told the Jews:

"The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go. But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you; And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses...

... And now, brethren, I wot that through ignorance ye did it, as did also your rulers. But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled. Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people." (Act 3:13-26).

"And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee." (Rom 11:17-18)

"For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins." (Rom 11:25-27)

".. Repent ye therefore", said Peter to the Jews, "and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: Whom the heaven must receive UNTIL the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. (Act 3:19-21)

Jesus had said to the leaders of Israel and the Jews who followed their unbelief,

"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one killing the prophets and stoning those who are sent to her, how often would I have gathered your children together, even as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you would not! Behold, your house is left to you desolate. For I say to you, You shall not see Me from now on UNTIL you say, "Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord." (Mat 23:37-39)

Because the prophets said that when the armies of all nations gather against Jerusalem,

"For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle;...

... Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east,... (Zec 14: 3-4)

"And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem. And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn." (Zec 12:9-10).

And of course, He did not set His feet on the Mount of Olives and go out and fight against the Roman armies when they destroyed Jerusalem 40 years later in 70 A.D - but He had said:

"And this gospel of the kingdom shall be proclaimed in all the world as a witness to all nations. And then the end shall come." (Mat 24:14)

And so when His apostles asked Him just before He ascended into heaven,

"Lord, do You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?" He did not say, "It's never going to happen - He said:

"It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father has put in His own authority. But you shall receive power, the Holy Spirit coming upon you. And you shall be witnesses to Me both in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and in Samaria, and to the end of the earth." (Act 1:6-8)

For:

"this gospel of the kingdom shall be proclaimed in all the world as a witness to all nations. And then the end shall come." (Mat 24:14)

Bearing in mind that a great multitude of GENTILE believers are just as blinded to the FIRST aspect of the Messiah's coming salvation of Israel as the unbelieving Jews are to the second aspect, how can we, who see WITH HINDSIGHT, be so full of spiritual arrogance and pride that we blame the Jews of Jesus' day for not being able to see?

The believing Gentiles whose hearts and minds are blinded to the first aspect of the Messiah's salvation of Israel have followed the false theology of their religious leaders, just as the Jews who believed the first aspect but would not believe the second aspect of the Messiah's salvation of Israel followed the false theology of their religious leaders.

[Press Forward]

The believing Gentiles whose hearts and minds are blinded to the first aspect of the Messiah's salvation of Israel have followed the false theology of their religious leaders, just as the Jews who believed the first aspect but would not believe the second aspect of the Messiah's salvation of Israel followed the false theology of their religious leaders.

For some reason the following scripture seems to be ignored...by jews..and people standing with Israel

This is Jesus Almighty God...talking to the Jews of Israel.

Zechariah 11

The flock detested me, and I grew weary of them 9 and said, "I will not be your shepherd. Let the dying die, and the perishing perish. Let those who are left eat one another's flesh."

10 Then I took my staff called Favor and broke it, revoking the covenant I had made with all the nations. 11 It was revoked on that day, and so the afflicted of the flock who were watching me knew it was the word of the LORD.

12 I told them, "If you think it best, give me my pay; but if not, keep it." So they paid me thirty pieces of silver.

13 And the LORD said to me, "Throw it to the potter"-the handsome price at which they priced me! So I took the thirty pieces of silver and threw them into the house of the LORD to the potter.

14 Then I broke my second staff called Union, breaking the brotherhood between Judah and Israel.

15 Then the LORD said to me, "Take again the equipment of a foolish shepherd. 16 For I am going to raise up a shepherd over the land who will not care for the lost, or seek the young, or heal the injured, or feed the healthy, but will eat the meat of the choice sheep, tearing off their hoofs.

17 "Woe to the worthless shepherd,

who deserts the flock!

May the sword strike his arm and his right eye!

May his arm be completely withered,

his right eye totally blinded!"

The Jewish Covenant is revoked. The Jews have one thing to look forward too. The foolish shepard who will denounce Jesus Christ and set up temples dedicated to satan. Start sacrificing again. All the things the jews want to hear. Back to bondage.

After this you will see Jesus Christ, King o Kings. Lord of Lords. Destroying the foolish shephard (Anti Christ) and all his followers, including many jews.

[Guest shiloh357]

Thanks for the replys...and I understand what the Jews wanted....as far as their Messiah....and looking for the leader

I'm talking about like in the temple..these are practicing Jews.....and John the Baptist dad comes out and can't talk because an Angel was upset with him and told him of his son being great and comng in the spirit of elijah...preparing the way for Almighty God... It just doesn't seem like much celebration...and much excitement... The jews should have been dancing in the streets..all of them across the nation....Jews prophesied about Jesus at this time...y wouldn't u believe your own prophesys...I mean if Angels are amongst you...wouldn't you know something big was on the horizon ...when Moses and Elijah are around and a loud voice says...this is my son...whom I love...believe what he tells you...I know only a couple were there...but that is fascinating...isn't it...that puts ghost hunters to shame..

and even if you had doubts...and watched him crucified...afterwards

when the temple split...dead people walking around...I wonder what those dead saints said...had they been in Hell...or the ground...

I would not have cared what my leaders were telling me...I would have said...I've seen and heard enough...I believe...that is enough evidence..

imagine this day and age...it would have been broadcast across the world...

The problem is that you are still forgetting that a lot of Jews DID believe in Him, and it was the Jewish leadership that was hostile toward the Jewish believers.

Actually, you don't know what you would have done under the circumstances. I doubt that there are any miracles today that would convince you to believe in Allah or Buddha.

[lekh l'kha]

For some reason the following scripture seems to be ignored...by jews..and people standing with Israel

This is Jesus Almighty God...talking to the Jews of Israel.

No it's not only Jesus doing the talking in this prophetic passage - it's (a) Judas Iscariot; and (b) the antichrist - the man the Jews will follow as their Messiah - both men are pictured here:

Zechariah 11

The flock detested me, and I grew weary of them 9 and said, "I will not be your shepherd. Let the dying die, and the perishing perish. Let those who are left eat one another's flesh."

They ate one another's flesh when the Romans had besieged Jerusalem in 69-70 A.D and the people inside the city walls were starving to death - Josephus records it.

10 Then I took my staff called Favor and broke it, revoking the covenant I had made with all the nations. 11 It was revoked on that day, and so the afflicted of the flock who were watching me knew it was the word of the LORD.

"all the nations is from the Hebrew words kol am, which means "people/tribe/flock". It's not Jesus talking here - it's the antichrist. The covenants (plural) Jesus made with Israel cannot be broken - because the Abrahamic Covenant is an everlasting covenant of grace which depends alone upon God for its fulfillment, and the Mosaic Covenant which came 430 years later was broken by the people - not by God:

"Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:" (Jer 31:31-32)

They broke the covenant - not Jesus.

12 I told them, "If you think it best, give me my pay; but if not, keep it." So they paid me thirty pieces of silver.

13 And the LORD said to me, "Throw it to the potter"-the handsome price at which they priced me! So I took the thirty pieces of silver and threw them into the house of the LORD to the potter.

It's not Jesus who is talking - it's Judas Iscariot, and maybe also be repeated somehow in the antichrist.

NO COVENANT GOD MADE WITH ISRAEL AND JUDAH AS EVER BEEN BROKEN BY GOD.

14 Then I broke my second staff called Union, breaking the brotherhood between Judah and Israel.

15 Then the LORD said to me, "Take again the equipment of a foolish shepherd. 16 For I am going to raise up a shepherd over the land who will not care for the lost, or seek the young, or heal the injured, or feed the healthy, but will eat the meat of the choice sheep, tearing off their hoofs.

17 "Woe to the worthless shepherd,

who deserts the flock!

May the sword strike his arm and his right eye!

May his arm be completely withered,

his right eye totally blinded!"

Again, this is prophetically talking about the antichrist's actions and his judgment.

The Jewish Covenant is revoked.

Which of the following covenants (plural) which God made with Israel/Judah is "the Jewish Covenant" of which you speak which according to you has been revoked?

1. The everlasting Abrahamic Covenant which eternally elected the seed of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (of which only a remnant would not be broken off), and which was sealed by God's oath?

2. The Mosaic Covenant which came over 430 years later which was a temporary covenant, was broken by the people (mentioned in the promise of the New Covenant while the Abrahamic Covenant was not mentioned) (Jer.31: 31-33), and was replaced by the New Covenant which God made with the house of Israel and the house of Judah?

3. The everlasting Davidic Covenant which promises the eternity of king David's throne (Jerusalem), seed (the Messiah, son of David), and kingdom (Israel), and which was also sealed by God's oath?

4. The New Covenant which replaced only the Mosaic Covenant (Jer.31: 31-33) and was made with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, and in which the Gentiles who believe have a share, while the unbelieving Jews are broken off?

Which one of the covenants (plural) which God made with Israel/Judah is the "Jewish Covenant" which has been revoked, according to you?

The Jews have one thing to look forward too. The foolish shepard who will denounce Jesus Christ and set up temples dedicated to satan. Start sacrificing again. All the things the jews want to hear. Back to bondage.

They're still in bondage right now, if they don't repent and turn to faith in Jesus, and they have been since the crucifixion of Jesus:

"For Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and answers to Jerusalem which NOW (Greek: nun: "of present time") is, and is in slavery with her children." (Gal 4:25)

So how can it be "back to bondage" when they start sacrificing again in a temple their false messiah will build?

After this you will see Jesus Christ, King o Kings. Lord of Lords. Destroying the foolish shephard (Anti Christ) and all his followers, including many jews.

That's right - all the Jews who erect another temple that the true Messiah has not erected, and all who support them in their endeavor.

But that's not all the Jews have to look forward to, for just as Jesus and the prophets foretold, the remnant of Israel will repent when the armies of all the nations have gathered against Jerusalem:

"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one killing the prophets and stoning those who are sent to her, how often would I have gathered your children together, even as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you would not! Behold, your house is left to you desolate. For I say to you, You shall not see Me from now on UNTIL you say, "Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord." (Mat 23:37-39)

"For I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, lest you should be wise within yourselves; that blindness in part has happened to Israel, UNTIL the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel shall be saved; as it is written, "There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer, and He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob. For this is My covenant with them, when I have taken away their sins." (Rom 11:25-27)

"And it shall be in that day I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem. And I will pour on the house of David, and on the people of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of prayers. And they shall look on Me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for Him, as one mourns for his only son, and shall be bitter over Him, as the bitterness over the first-born. "(Zec 12:9-10)

On one hand, He seeks to destroy all the nations that will have come against Jerusalem, but on the other hand, He POURS THE SPIRIT OF GRACE AND SUPPLICATION ON ISRAEL'S REMNANT, so that they repent.

"Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south." (Zec 14:1-4).

Their false messiah will fatten them for slaughter, then desert them. Then the remnant will repent and turn to their true Messiah, and then He will save the remnant.

You can't build a whole false doctrine of a supposed "Jewish covenant" made by Jesus that has supposedly been revoked on a very faulty interpretation of the passage you quoted, Press Forward.

Lekh

[lekh l'kha]

and even if you had doubts...and watched him crucified...afterwards

when the temple split...dead people walking around...I wonder what those dead saints said...had they been in Hell...or the ground...

I would not have cared what my leaders were telling me...I would have said...I've seen and heard enough...I believe...that is enough evidence..

imagine this day and age...it would have been broadcast across the world...

It could not have been broadcast around the world in their day because there was no modern technology nor modern transport - only the Jews walking in and out of Jerusalem saw Him crucified that day - none of the others who were in the countryside - and news travelled very slowly because of this, and was by word of mouth.

So when the Jew in the countryside was told a month later that the Jesus who claimed to be the Messiah and worked miracles had been crucified, and that His disciples were claiming He had had risen from the dead, to them it might have sounded like it would sound to you today if someone told you a small group of people had seen a UFO land in the Grand Canyon and had met the occupants.

Anyway, your words reminf me of what Jesus said to the unbelieving Jews:

"...and say(ing), If we had been living in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets." (Mat 23:30)

"... If I had been living in the days of Jesus, I would not have been partakers with them in the blood of Jesus."

What's good for the goose, Fast Forward, is good for the Ganda. If this is what you say, you will be told the same thing by Jesus that He told the Pharisees.

Lekh

[nebula]

The Jews understood that the Messiah is the One the prophets said would:

1. Be the antitype of David who would save the people from their enemies ("the nations") by judging their enemies who would gather against Jerusalem in a day following the regathering of the seed of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob to the land the King of heaven and earth promised their father Abraham as his/their eternal inheritance.

2. Be the antitype of Joseph who would be betrayed by his brothers, and suffer and die for his people.

<snip>

Bearing in mind that a great multitude of GENTILE believers are just as blinded to the FIRST aspect of the Messiah's coming salvation of Israel as the unbelieving Jews are to the second aspect, how can we, who see WITH HINDSIGHT, be so full of spiritual arrogance and pride that we blame the Jews of Jesus' day for not being able to see?

The believing Gentiles whose hearts and minds are blinded to the first aspect of the Messiah's salvation of Israel have followed the false theology of their religious leaders, just as the Jews who believed the first aspect but would not believe the second aspect of the Messiah's salvation of Israel followed the false theology of their religious leaders.

Bingo!

As long as anyone keeps thinking of the Jews as different from anyone else, they will never understand the truth.

The Gentiles are just as guilty as the Jew.

As it is written in the Epistles: "Now these things occurred as examples to keep us from setting our hearts on evil things as they did."

So, Press Forward,

You are better off making the effort to learn from their mistakes so as to not repeat them rather than look for reasons to condemn them.

[lekh l'kha]

Thanks for the replys...and I understand what the Jews wanted....as far as their Messiah....and looking for the leader

I'm talking about like in the temple..these are practicing Jews.....and John the Baptist dad comes out and can't talk because an Angel was upset with him and told him of his son being great and comng in the spirit of elijah...preparing the way for Almighty God... It just doesn't seem like much celebration...and much excitement... The jews should have been dancing in the streets..all of them across the nation....Jews prophesied about Jesus at this time...y wouldn't u believe your own prophesys...I mean if Angels are amongst you...wouldn't you know something big was on the horizon ...when Moses and Elijah are around and a loud voice says...this is my son...whom I love...believe what he tells you...I know only a couple were there...but that is fascinating...isn't it...that puts ghost hunters to shame..

and even if you had doubts...and watched him crucified...afterwards

when the temple split...dead people walking around...I wonder what those dead saints said...had they been in Hell...or the ground...

I would not have cared what my leaders were telling me...I would have said...I've seen and heard enough...I believe...that is enough evidence..

imagine this day and age...it would have been broadcast across the world...

Mary, Joseph, John the Baptist's father Zecharias - none of these people were people of any significance in Israel. Aside from the fact that Zecharias was a priest among many hundereds of priests, they had no social standing at all in Israel. The Messiah was supposed to come from the kingly line of David and act like a triumphant, conquering king, in the minds of most Jews. Thousands of Jews came from the line of David. Hundreds of would-be-messiahs had come and claimed to be the messiah and started a movement, only to be killed by the Romans and their followers dispersed. Jesus was at first "just another one".

The crucifixion of Jesus itself seemed a very insignificant event in the greater scheme of things - the only people who understood its immense significance in the greater scheme of things at first, were the 11 (minus Judas) and the five hundred (out of a over a million Jews) who Jesus appeared to after His resurrection. The Romans didn't care - the Gentiles didn't care. To them it was a case of, "So what if some Jew who had worked miracles had been crucified?:" The Romans crucified criminals all the time. The earthquake may have been understood by the Roman soldier standing by the cross to be significant, but why (in the mind of most people) should an earthquake taking place at the same time three men were being crucified (there were crucifixions taking place all the time) have some connection with one of the three men who were crucified?

There was such a lot of 'stuff' going on in the world at that time - any news about Jesus would have been just like today - one news article among many in the newspaper, heard today and forgotten tomorrow.

You really need to study the historical context more.