Deeper look at Genesis 1-4

[e lansing]

Ok im slow!!! Sorry to ask such slow question and wasting your time!

Edited January 16, 2010 by Matthitjah
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[OneLight]

I'm sorry, but I see it the other way around. Genesis 1 gives us a day by day account, where Genesis 2 is like a history book lesson, not detailed enough to make specific facts as good as a day by day account.

[e lansing]

I'm sorry, but I see it the other way around. Genesis 1 gives us a day by day account, where Genesis 2 is like a history book lesson, not detailed enough to make specific facts as good as a day by day account.

Lots of people believe that chap 1 is an overview based on other posts. And this was based on 2:4 So what say you about the rest of this post?

[Guest shiloh357]

It appears that Adam was created on the 2nd or 3rd day of creation based upon the condition od the earth.

No, the Bible is explicit that Adam was created on the sixth day. There is no way around that.

I know that "them" could referr to Adam and Eve but it does not say that.

That is an argument from silence. The Bible builds on itself and clarifies itself as it progresses. Gen. 1 refers to Adam and Eve. Gen. 2 narrows the focus and first calls them by name. It is also in Gen. 2 where God's Name is first used. On your logic, it was a different god in Genesis 1 simply because God's Name is used in Gen. 2.

Theologicly I dont see a problem. All sin is against God. Whoever sins are accountable to God. If i sin it.s not because of Adam. Its my sin. It was through Adam that sin enterd the World and has effected all of Gods creation. Why would a seperate group of people from Adam be considerd sinless and uneffected by Adams sin. If sin enterd the world through Adam and thus everything in it would be corrupted by Adams sin. God set the standard ALL ARE UNRIGHTEOUS BECAUSE OF ADAM. And it was through Adam that God would provide the solution to the sin problem[Christ].

Sin is passed down from Adam through to all men and women. Rom. 5:12-23. The theological problem is that only Adam's descendents qualify for salvation. The earth is not sinful because of Adam. Animals and plants are not "sinful," only man is sinful.

You are really overthinking this and are trying to assign your own values to the text instead of just letting the text of Scripture speak for itself.

[e lansing]

Gen 2:5 do not say this at all. Read the verses again and you will see

KG version says generations New living uses account, do they not mean the same?

Gen 2 says that there was not plants, no rain or such, and there was no man

Right, based upon the creation stage there was no vegetation at the time Adam was createdGen2:5-7

Gen 2 is not in chronological order like Gen 1 was. Look at verse 8 and verse 15, in both of them we are told of God putting man in the garden.

It appears that you believe that Gen 1 is the actual accout of creation and Gen 2 is the narraitive. If thats the case then is all of creation complete by Gen2:4? Then it looks like that Adam was not made until after creation was complete.

where do you get that Eve would have laid with Cain?

Eve sleeping with Cain is not my idea. It a conclusion that could be drawn from the logic of inbreeding. If Adam, Eve, Cain and Able were the only people at the time and then Cain kills Able and now theres are only 3 people, only one of the three could have babies. Scripture does not mention any other people besides these 3 or 4 people at this time. So if Adam and Eve are married how would Cain find a wife to have a family if Eve is the only woman at that time and sex outside of marriage is wrong?

According to Gen 4:25 Adam and Eve did not have any more children until Seth was born. And it appears that Adan and Eve did not have any more kids until after Seth was born. The word does not say Able had any kids or family of his own. Is Eve having KIds with her kids? I think it quite possible that God could have created "others/them"

There is nothing in this verse, or any other, that says there was no kids in-between.

You make my point. Going on what is written it appears as it is written. If sex outside of marriage is wrong then and today then there must have been "others".

[e lansing]

[qoute]No, the Bible is explicit that Adam was created on the sixth day. There is no way around that.

[Guest shiloh357]

QUOTE

It is also in Gen. 2 where God's Name is first used. On your logic, it was a different god in Genesis 1 simply because God's Name is used in Gen. 2.

Gods name is not God either.

In Gen. 2, The name YHVH (replaced by the English word "Lord") appears for the first time. YHVH is God's Name.

This does not prove that the sin of Adam could not effect other persons out side of Adam.

Yeah, it pretty much does.

Why couldnt people get save outside of Adam? The gentiles were included into salvation and at one point were not. All sin is against God. How can we conclude that someone else created by God could not sin or not be effected by the sin of Adam?

All of creation was effected by Adam's sin, but not all of creation was made sinful. That is the difference. The Bible does not speak of two races of humanity, one descended from Adam, and the other descended from someone else. All of humanity is descended from Adam and thus all of humanity is born with the stain of sin passed down from Adam.

Adam sinned as perfect as he was. My fault! The earth was cursed because of sin!

Yeah, whatever... what does that mean?

[Rick-Parker]

No offense, but this really is a goofy thread to me. Why try to read something into God's Word that it is silent about and makes no sense at all? All of a sudden God gives a new revelation about the origins of mankind? Seems too out of God's character to me. Just my humble opinion, though.

[e lansing]

you are adding the "at the time Adam was created" that is not there in the Bible. you are forcing a chronological order to Gen 2 that is not there. I have already pointed out examples of this. It is not uncommon for events to be told in other than a chronological order. Try reading the sports pages, most sports stories are done this way. They speak of the important action out of order, they focus on the events and not the order of the events. We have already been given an order of events in Gen 1, so it is not needed in Gen 2.

Ok, i can see that. You are right in that i added "at" not on purpose but to try to make the point. In verse 7of 2 it looks like Adam was made in the same time spand as the dirt and plants

Yes, Gen 2 is the narraitive that fleshes out the chronological order given in Gen 1. Adam was formed when we are told in Gen 1.

Ok!

It is not a logically conclusion, and it is not even hinted at in the Bible, so why go there?

Because inbreeding is what most are telling me as how the earth was filled.

We dont know that Adam, Eve, Cain and Able were the only people at the time of the killing of Able, this is something people assume that is not stated in the Bible.

So we have two options either Adam, Eve, Cain, were the only people or they were not?

We are told that Adam and Eve had lots of children, we dont know their names

In Gen 5:3 it implies that there no other kids until after seth. it does not mention Adam and Eve having more kids before seth and because it does not, what are we to think?

Eve is having kids with Adam, why would you assume anything else?

its not written that they were having kids before seth

There is nothing in what was written to show or point to the idea that Eve had kids via Cain.

i'm not saying that they did. Are saying that Cain had babies with his sister from the land of Nod? How did Cain have a family?

Adam was 130 when Seth was born. even if Adam and Even only had kids every 5 years that is at least 20 children, some of which could be over 100 years old, having their own kids.

So inbreeding is the conclusion? This is how the earth was filled?

[Guest LadyC]

e. lansing, i hate to say this but you really are over-thinking things. you're turning this into mental gymnastics with all these hoops.

it's really quite simple. eve was the WIFE of adam, therefore could NOT have had sex with cain as part of God's plan to fill the earth.

scripture does not indicate WHEN they had other children, but given the command to fill the earth, and that we know that adam and even DID have other children, and the simple fact that God did not forbid marriage between siblings at that time, we can deduce that cain took a wife from among his sisters. or at least from a more distant relative that resulted from other siblings intermarrying.

just because in the narrative of gen. 2, scripture indicates seth and other children being born after the murder does not mean that there were no other children born prior to the murder or at some time in between. none of the other children, no matter when they were born, were important in the telling of events, so we not only have no names, but no timelines.

like it or not, siblings were marrying. eve, however, was not committing adultery with her son.