Listening to the Holy Spirit

[Permie]

Doing a word study on Revelation 21:8, I have discovered the following.

"Fearful", or "cowardly", are said to be Christians who cower under persecution, that may become apostatized.

"And" is not used to describe one person, but different people, each having their own weakness.

Thank you, OneLight, for showing that the fearful are Christians.

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Revelation 21:8

I still maintain that "perfected love" casts out all fear. 1 John 4:18

There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

16And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

17Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

18There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

Even though what you have posted is scripture, we must also realize that nobody is in perfect love while being here in this life. We still battle with all that is against God, including our own nature. Scripture tells us that we know in part until that which is perfect comes. To me, that which is perfect is the finished work of Christ in us, and this work will not be finished until we are with Him.

1 Corinthians 13

The Greatest Gift

Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal. And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, but have not love, it profits me nothing.

Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.

When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.

And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

The Lord's word is true. Yet, there is so much that we as individuals must reconcile.

So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation. Hebrews 9:28

While you will probably look up the above verse in context, do also think of this verse while doing so:

Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Romans 6:3

Do read down to at least verse 7 of Romans, and recall also that the bible says that the soul that sins dies.

Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die. Ezekiel 18:4

With the love of Christ,

Permie

Sorry for the small font.

.... to be honest, I cannot follow your train of thought. How does this tie into what you quoted or listening to the Holy Spirit?

Okay, we/I were/was talking about these scriptures in regards to how there is no fear in perfected love.

16And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

17Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

18There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

Then you replied with scripture that you were using to support the idea that no one is perfected in love until we were again with Christ.

So I then gave you the scripture from Paul that states that there are some whom are baptized into Christ's death. There's the baptism of the Holy Spirit and then there is the baptism of being crucified into Christ, which Paul spoke about many times having had experienced it himself.

Jesus also referred to it: 22But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able.

23And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father. Matthew 20:22-23

What do you suppose being crucified into Christ aka, also known as, being baptized with His baptism means and causes?

Could it have anything to do with what He prayed for in the garden? (That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. John 17:21) Is that not being with the Lord?

As an interesting side note, the entire chapter of John 17 is Jesus' prayer, and the NASB version indicates that it is the High Priestly Prayer.

You say that "we battle with our own nature". That nature that sins, that is done battle against, it dies. The bible says so in Ezekiel, scripture previously posted, and then we have Romans, Chapter 6:

3Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

7For he that is dead is freed from sin.

As you said: "that which is perfect is the finished work of Christ in us, and this work will not be finished until we are with Him."

Jesus said: Let the dead bury the dead. (Matthew 8:22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.)

A person can be dead and walking around, and a person can be one with Christ and be walking around too.

That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. John 17:21

Being one with Christ, would that enable perfected love, wherein there is no fear that both John and Paul preached?

[Permie]

if you have trouble reading small fonts, your browser will let you increase the size of the font you are reading, and will keep the larger font size no matter what page you are on, as long as it's in the same tab. it's under "view" on your browser toolbar.

Woohoo! I learn something new everyday! Thank you, Lady C!

I can read the smaller fonts, it's just that my eyes get tired from the smaller font, which then becomes a strain and then the eyes get more and more tired.

[Guest LadyC]

glad i could help, but you didn't answer my question....

[Permie]

glad i could help, but you didn't answer my question....

Please refer to my response to OneLight.

[Guest LadyC]

glad i could help, but you didn't answer my question....

Please refer to my response to OneLight.

oh, darn, i was hoping for a short answer so i wouldn't have an excuse for sitting here on the computer instead of cleaning the bedrooms

[Permie]

glad i could help, but you didn't answer my question....

Please refer to my response to OneLight.

oh, darn, i was hoping for a short answer so i wouldn't have an excuse for sitting here on the computer instead of cleaning the bedrooms

Isn't it too late in the day to do that anyway? (Trying to help... )

[Guest LadyC]

ok, i just finished reading your post to onelight.

and again, i have to ask for clarification... please just give me a yes or no, because i do NOT want to incorrectly assess what you are saying... it does sound as though you do, indeed, believe that we can become sinless while still in our earthly, human state. am i understanding you correctly?

and no, it's not too late... it's only 4:30 here. i had planned on a short trip to the store before cleaning, but a friend of mine was stir-crazy and so i picked her and the baby up and took them with me... it took much longer than i'd originally planned.

[Permie]

ok, i just finished reading your post to onelight.

and again, i have to ask for clarification... please just give me a yes or no, because i do NOT want to incorrectly assess what you are saying... it does sound as though you do, indeed, believe that we can become sinless while still in our earthly, human state. am i understanding you correctly?

and no, it's not too late... it's only 4:30 here. i had planned on a short trip to the store before cleaning, but a friend of mine was stir-crazy and so i picked her and the baby up and took them with me... it took much longer than i'd originally planned.

I believe scripture. I believe Jesus. Jesus said: Go and sin no more. (John 8:11

She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.)

The other scriptures that have been previously posted indicate the same thing.

Those who lives in God does not sin:

8He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

9Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

10In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother. 1 John 3:8-10

And also:

16And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

17Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world. 1 John 4:16-17

I believe scripture.

[Guest LadyC]

well, let me never be called a liar... i sin. every day. i struggle against it. i walk close to Jesus but i often fail because of my humanity.

are you suggesting that you don't sin?

[Permie]

well, let me never be called a liar... i sin. every day. i struggle against it. i walk close to Jesus but i often fail because of my humanity.

are you suggesting that you don't sin?

And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. Romans 8:28

If I do, and I am not suggesting that I don't, God will turn it to the good. As long as we are in these earthly tents we will be prone to error. We just don't have to be doing it willingly. Sins can be committed unintentionally.