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Posted
Dear Drossfurnace,

Thanks for responding to me. I have attended many different church denominations over the past 30 - 40 years. Rarely do the pastors teach on any subject but what is "pleasing to the ears" of those sitting in the audience. The churches I'm familiar with are run more like businesses, providing entertainment and music along with a very shallow sermon. The goal is to increase membership thereby increasing the funds collected. If growth occurs, much of the money is spent making the building larger or nicer with things like basketball gyms, playgrounds, or anything that will attract and keep members. The increase in headcount and funds raised are the factors they consider on whether they are successful or not. The church ends up with shallow uncommitted members resting on their pastor's assurances of their individual salvation. Very little spiritual growth occurs in churches like these. As you are probably aware, spiritual babes are no different that bondservents who are not heirs to the promise. I know that not all churches are like that - but I still don't know of any that encourage it's members to really study scripture like the Bereans did. In the organized church settings, false teachers are very successful in leading the members astray. I encourage everyone to take personal responsibility to study (not just read) for themselves. You would be surprised the find out that scripture and what organized churches teach are miles a part. It seems that very few believers really have a love of the truth and because of this, have fallen prey to the errors taught by supposedly spiritual men of God. I do want to point out that for the most part, the church leaders are very sincere but they are still deceived. That's enough comment from me on this subject. The organized churches are what they are by the will of God and they serve their purpose in His plan for mankind. I do not seek or desire to change them but I do hope to expose their teachings to those who have been given ears to hear the true gospel of Christ so that they will come out from among them.

Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

May the Lord bless you all in your search for hidden treasure which is the knowledge of God.

Joe in Arkansas

Now where did you get that from?

Spiritual babes, drinking milk, are still born again.

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Posted (edited)
Dear Drossfurnace,

Thanks for responding to me. I have attended many different church denominations over the past 30 - 40 years. Rarely do the pastors teach on any subject but what is "pleasing to the ears" of those sitting in the audience. The churches I'm familiar with are run more like businesses, providing entertainment and music along with a very shallow sermon. The goal is to increase membership thereby increasing the funds collected. If growth occurs, much of the money is spent making the building larger or nicer with things like basketball gyms, playgrounds, or anything that will attract and keep members. The increase in headcount and funds raised are the factors they consider on whether they are successful or not. The church ends up with shallow uncommitted members resting on their pastor's assurances of their individual salvation. Very little spiritual growth occurs in churches like these. As you are probably aware, spiritual babes are no different that bondservents who are not heirs to the promise. I know that not all churches are like that - but I still don't know of any that encourage it's members to really study scripture like the Bereans did. In the organized church settings, false teachers are very successful in leading the members astray. I encourage everyone to take personal responsibility to study (not just read) for themselves. You would be surprised the find out that scripture and what organized churches teach are miles a part. It seems that very few believers really have a love of the truth and because of this, have fallen prey to the errors taught by supposedly spiritual men of God. I do want to point out that for the most part, the church leaders are very sincere but they are still deceived. That's enough comment from me on this subject. The organized churches are what they are by the will of God and they serve their purpose in His plan for mankind. I do not seek or desire to change them but I do hope to expose their teachings to those who have been given ears to hear the true gospel of Christ so that they will come out from among them.

Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

Joe,

I couldnt agree more than many churches are WAYYYY more worried about the size of their congregation than the spiritual wellbeing of their congregation. I heard it put this way by a man who ran a homestudy church at his house : "The Bible tells us that Jesus' sheep know His voice, therefore shouldn't we be about speaking the Word of God and let it do its own work by calling its own people?" I agree with that. I went to a church in Hollywood that was extremely worried about numbers and was always having "special guests" from the Hollywood industry and telling the congregation to "tell all your friends to come" because so-and-so was gonna be there next Sunday. Yknow, Billy Banks the tae-bo guy, Chuck Norris, Harrison Ford's stunt double from Clear And Present Danger (im not making this up), the guy who wrote "Chicken Soup for the Soul..." etc etc.

it was sad. instead of being the head, we were chasing the tail of Hollywood. sad sad sad.

But i also must say this: you're not the first anti organized religion guy ive met who bases his view of the church on the verse you quoted - under the interpretation that the church is the "whore of Babylon" that believers must come out of. You see, some christians view the Whore as the catholic church. While some believers view the church as a whole as the Whore. but THIS is an interpretation and in no way proveable (in my opinion).

i'd be interested in hearing your interpretation. and i must say, in my opinion, that the whore more fits the catholic church (via the merchants of gold/silver/etc - as the catholic churches are known for this type of thing) than the christian church or organized religion as a whole. BUT im not convinced she's the catholic church, either. there's a lot to it. the babylonians were a merchant people, and continuosly throughout references of Babylon (the whore) there's always the theme of merchants. Even the King of Tyre from Ezekiel has a lot in common with the theme of the whore of babylon. So i guess before getting into it (not that i feel myself fully qualified for such a task) i'd like to hear you explain your reasoning as to why you believe the church as a whole fits the biblical description of Babylon. Keep in mind Rev 18:23 , as i'd like to see that reconciled with this interpretation.

"for your merchants were the great men of the earth, because all the nations were deceived by your sorcery." Because apparently the church merchants were the great men of the earth (?????) and "ALL" the nations (afghanistan, iran, yemen, saudi arabia) were deceived by the church's sorcery...... (???) I'm not so sure...

Edited by drossfurnace

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Posted
So I never really understood the difference between the different Christian denominations, especially the difference between a typical congregational church and an evengelical church?

Please don't use but, fancy words to explaine verything. I just want to know, in basic words a teenager can understand, the difference in denominations.

Thanks!

Different denominations came from people interpreting the bible the ways that they wanted to. When people started having their own views on how to be saved, how to worship, marriages, dealing with sin, what is sin, baptism, etc. they separated themselves. Many denominations are break-offs from each other.

This was never to be so. We are all supposed to be one minded speaking and living in the same judgments and knowledge. Now, what we have are many denominations that condemn and contradict each other. God never intended it to be this way. To say that it doesn't matter what you believe as long as you believe is just wrong when what I believe in condemns you to hell because what you believe in is different.

Where I come from we hold to a motto, "where the bible speaks we speak and where the bible is silent we are silent". So, basically, if it is written in the bible we better be doing it, but if it is not in the bible we are not going to teach it as gospel. Denominations vary because they add and take away from the scriptures.


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Posted

I will share a little tool with you that has stood me in good stead for many years. First, have your bible with you, then ask your self, "What does this group believe about God, sin, Salvation and the future?" The answers will show some groups to be outright cultish, others cold or lukewarm and others closer to what you find in the Word of God. The Word will also help decide which issues are essential to eternity and which ones are not. Hope that helps

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