Who is my "brother" in Christ?

[eis]

Now I am really confused. I thought believing was faith. Now it is faith and repentance.

Repentance is a result of having faith, not equal to it. Ask yourself this. Can one repent when they have no faith in which to repent? No, one must have faith to repent. Now, ask yourself this, can one have faith in God and not repent? Yes, for they can refuse to turn from their sin. This clearly shows that repentance is the result of faith, not faith the result of repentance. They are not the same.

Ephesians 2:8-10

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

You will notice that first come Gods grace, then our faith, which completes salvation. After faith, we are created to do His works, through obedience in Him.

So one can be saved and not repent?

If one never repents, then one is not saved. Repenting literally means turning away and heading in another direction. If a person says he believes in Jesus' provision of personal salvation, then without repentance, or a change in direction, there is no authentic salvation. That life will bear it out by the lack of fruit.

Thank you Floatingaxe ! At least someone is willing to commit. Anyone else willing to say Yes or No?

Edited March 31, 2010 by eis

[OneLight]

Now I am really confused. I thought believing was faith. Now it is faith and repentance.

Repentance is a result of having faith, not equal to it. Ask yourself this. Can one repent when they have no faith in which to repent? No, one must have faith to repent. Now, ask yourself this, can one have faith in God and not repent? Yes, for they can refuse to turn from their sin. This clearly shows that repentance is the result of faith, not faith the result of repentance. They are not the same.

Ephesians 2:8-10

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

You will notice that first come Gods grace, then our faith, which completes salvation. After faith, we are created to do His works, through obedience in Him.

So one can be saved and not repent?

Salvation is having faith in the Son of God, believing He died for our sins, rose again on the third day and is sitting at the right hand of the Father. While your faith turns to Him, the Holy Spirit is working inside you to convict you of your sins, turning you to Him. Some say they are going on at the same time, but when you look real close at what happens, and not just skim the surface, you will understand that repentance can not happen until faith first does its work. How can one repent when they have no faith in which to repent? Who or what woudl they be repenting to or for? It is through faith in God that we are saved by His grace toward us. Repentance is a work, whose fruit are seen in baptism, feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, housing the homeless, visiting the sick, the jailed, the widows and orphans, amongst all the other work we do in Him.

1 Corinthians 3:9-15

For we are God

[eis]

Now I am really confused. I thought believing was faith. Now it is faith and repentance.

Repentance is a result of having faith, not equal to it. Ask yourself this. Can one repent when they have no faith in which to repent? No, one must have faith to repent. Now, ask yourself this, can one have faith in God and not repent? Yes, for they can refuse to turn from their sin. This clearly shows that repentance is the result of faith, not faith the result of repentance. They are not the same.

Ephesians 2:8-10

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

You will notice that first come Gods grace, then our faith, which completes salvation. After faith, we are created to do His works, through obedience in Him.

So one can be saved and not repent?

Salvation is having faith in the Son of God, believing He died for our sins, rose again on the third day and is sitting at the right hand of the Father. While your faith turns to Him, the Holy Spirit is working inside you to convict you of your sins, turning you to Him. Some say they are going on at the same time, but when you look real close at what happens, and not just skim the surface, you will understand that repentance can not happen until faith first does its work. How can one repent when they have no faith in which to repent? Who or what woudl they be repenting to or for? It is through faith in God that we are saved by His grace toward us. Repentance is a work, whose fruit are seen in baptism, feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, housing the homeless, visiting the sick, the jailed, the widows and orphans, amongst all the other work we do in Him.

1 Corinthians 3:9-15

For we are God

[OneLight]

Now I am really confused. I thought believing was faith. Now it is faith and repentance.

Repentance is a result of having faith, not equal to it. Ask yourself this. Can one repent when they have no faith in which to repent? No, one must have faith to repent. Now, ask yourself this, can one have faith in God and not repent? Yes, for they can refuse to turn from their sin. This clearly shows that repentance is the result of faith, not faith the result of repentance. They are not the same.

Ephesians 2:8-10

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

You will notice that first come Gods grace, then our faith, which completes salvation. After faith, we are created to do His works, through obedience in Him.

So one can be saved and not repent?

Salvation is having faith in the Son of God, believing He died for our sins, rose again on the third day and is sitting at the right hand of the Father. While your faith turns to Him, the Holy Spirit is working inside you to convict you of your sins, turning you to Him. Some say they are going on at the same time, but when you look real close at what happens, and not just skim the surface, you will understand that repentance can not happen until faith first does its work. How can one repent when they have no faith in which to repent? Who or what woudl they be repenting to or for? It is through faith in God that we are saved by His grace toward us. Repentance is a work, whose fruit are seen in baptism, feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, housing the homeless, visiting the sick, the jailed, the widows and orphans, amongst all the other work we do in Him.

1 Corinthians 3:9-15

For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building. 10 According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it. For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

If our salvation depended on our works, then those whose works burned would also loose their salvation, but we read above that "he will suffer loss, but he himself will be saved".

Sorry to persist, but is that a yes or a no to the question: So one can be saved and not repent?

In the words of another poster, their answer did not include a "yes" or "no", yet you were excited that someone answered your question, yet, in my posts, which also gives no yes or no, you can not read it clear enough to understand? Why is that?

[eis]

Now I am really confused. I thought believing was faith. Now it is faith and repentance.

Repentance is a result of having faith, not equal to it. Ask yourself this. Can one repent when they have no faith in which to repent? No, one must have faith to repent. Now, ask yourself this, can one have faith in God and not repent? Yes, for they can refuse to turn from their sin. This clearly shows that repentance is the result of faith, not faith the result of repentance. They are not the same.

Ephesians 2:8-10

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

You will notice that first come Gods grace, then our faith, which completes salvation. After faith, we are created to do His works, through obedience in Him.

So one can be saved and not repent?

Salvation is having faith in the Son of God, believing He died for our sins, rose again on the third day and is sitting at the right hand of the Father. While your faith turns to Him, the Holy Spirit is working inside you to convict you of your sins, turning you to Him. Some say they are going on at the same time, but when you look real close at what happens, and not just skim the surface, you will understand that repentance can not happen until faith first does its work. How can one repent when they have no faith in which to repent? Who or what woudl they be repenting to or for? It is through faith in God that we are saved by His grace toward us. Repentance is a work, whose fruit are seen in baptism, feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, housing the homeless, visiting the sick, the jailed, the widows and orphans, amongst all the other work we do in Him.

1 Corinthians 3:9-15

For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building. 10 According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it. For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

If our salvation depended on our works, then those whose works burned would also loose their salvation, but we read above that "he will suffer loss, but he himself will be saved".

Sorry to persist, but is that a yes or a no to the question: So one can be saved and not repent?

In the words of another poster, their answer did not include a "yes" or "no", yet you were excited that someone answered your question, yet, in my posts, which also gives no yes or no, you can not read it clear enough to understand? Why is that?

No offense intended. It is late and guess I am getting more dense as the night drags on. A simple Yes or No world be helpful.

Edited March 31, 2010 by eis

[nebula]

Repent of sin or from it. No perfection implied.I understand repenta to be a recognition that sin is in my life and that I am going co turn from sin and pursue a sinless lifestyle. Perfection on our part is not required.

So then what does "repentance" mean with regards to salvation?

Take a "good" person - never had sex outside of marriage, never got drunk, doesn't lie, gives to the poor, etc.

What would you say to him? Even if you could get him to acknowledge that he is a sinner "just because" - what sin would you tell him to repent of in order to get saved?

[nebula]

People who lack faith will not be repenting.

Hey Axe!

How's it going?

P.S. Before you continue, you might want to read the opening post to see where this man is coming from with his questions.

[OneLight]

Now I am really confused. I thought believing was faith. Now it is faith and repentance.

Repentance is a result of having faith, not equal to it. Ask yourself this. Can one repent when they have no faith in which to repent? No, one must have faith to repent. Now, ask yourself this, can one have faith in God and not repent? Yes, for they can refuse to turn from their sin. This clearly shows that repentance is the result of faith, not faith the result of repentance. They are not the same.

Ephesians 2:8-10

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

You will notice that first come Gods grace, then our faith, which completes salvation. After faith, we are created to do His works, through obedience in Him.

So one can be saved and not repent?

Salvation is having faith in the Son of God, believing He died for our sins, rose again on the third day and is sitting at the right hand of the Father. While your faith turns to Him, the Holy Spirit is working inside you to convict you of your sins, turning you to Him. Some say they are going on at the same time, but when you look real close at what happens, and not just skim the surface, you will understand that repentance can not happen until faith first does its work. How can one repent when they have no faith in which to repent? Who or what woudl they be repenting to or for? It is through faith in God that we are saved by His grace toward us. Repentance is a work, whose fruit are seen in baptism, feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, housing the homeless, visiting the sick, the jailed, the widows and orphans, amongst all the other work we do in Him.

1 Corinthians 3:9-15

For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building. 10 According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it. For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

If our salvation depended on our works, then those whose works burned would also loose their salvation, but we read above that "he will suffer loss, but he himself will be saved".

Sorry to persist, but is that a yes or a no to the question: So one can be saved and not repent?

In the words of another poster, their answer did not include a "yes" or "no", yet you were excited that someone answered your question, yet, in my posts, which also gives no yes or no, you can not read it clear enough to understand? Why is that?

No offense intended. It is late and guess I am getting more dense as the night drags on. A simple Yes or No world be helpful.

You were not too tired to understand the post from Floatingaxe, which was just a few minutes ago, so I suggest that you read it tomorrow when you are not so tired. The lessons come from when you can think for yourself, not when someone gives answers for you. You answer will be found in my words.

[Scare Bear]

Well that is what your denomination tells you. The Bible teaches that we are obedient because we are saved. The Bible does not say we are to work to earn salvation.

If they did, they were probably never saved. Again, salvation is an inward transformation, and that will borne out in our actions. A lot of people have religion, but have never found Christ.

Where does the bible teach we are obedient because we're saved?

But they accepted Jesus though. By your examples they are saved.

All of the above. God's grace is received by faith along in Christ alone.

The problem is that you are looking at the Bible through the warped lense of the Church of Christ "theology. I know enough about what the Bible says about salvation that I can understand perfectly when the Eunich was saved. He was saved the moment He believed the gospel presented to Him by Phillip

Hebrews 5:8 though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered. 9 And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him,... Sounds to me obedience is needed as well.

Can you point to the verse that indicates this to be truth?

You operate from the misguided and unfounded assumption that just because it is a commandment frmo God it is necessary for salvation.

Well that's a warped sense. I'm sorry to say that but it does not make sense at all. If God gave you a commandment and you didn't obey it, you went against God's commands... you went against God. Those who are against God are not of Him and have no hope of eternal salvation. Those who DO the will of the Father will see heaven. If God told Noah to build an ark and Noah did not obey, he would have been lost. God's commands always have something to do with salvation, whether it be ours or other's.

See, you twisted my response. I said that if the Eunich did not have access to water, he could have been baptized at a later date. That is different than someone flippantly ignoring a commandment of God for the sake of convenience. Evidently reading comprehension is not your strong suit.

There are a variety every day scenarios that could be posited where a person could be saved, be willing to be baptized but lack the opportunity.

But if he was not guaranteed tomorrow. In fact we do not know what happened after this, the eunuch could have been killed later that day or week... and he would have been lost because he did not follow the command given to him. Besides, there is always a means for someone to get baptized if there was no water there they would have found some place that did.

Such as?

I did not say that. I said not every reference to baptism refers to being immersed in water. Jesus immersed in water to identify with us.

Then we go right back around with the meaning of batism etc.

Only because you are not willing to be honest about what it means.

They were baptized by the Holy Spirit AND they were immersed in water. I don't see the problem

Well I would still appreciate it if you could show me the verses that distinctly show one person was baptized with the Holy Spirit only and another was baptized with water.

1Cor. 6:9 refers to people who live in immorality as a matter of principle. They are habitual sinners who live in and enjoy sin and for them, sin is a virtue. They are not going to hell for what they do. Those who commit those sins are only doing what comes natural to them, being separated from God. Their sins of immorality are symptoms of a greater spiritual problem. They are spiritually dead and their rampant immorality is the fruit of that spiritual condition. They are going to hell because they are separated from God.

Psalms 106:37 They even sacrificed their sons And their daughters to demons, 38 And shed innocent blood, The blood of their sons and daughters, Whom they sacrificed to the idols of Canaan; And the land was polluted with blood. 39 Thus they were defiled by their own works, And played the harlot by their own deeds.

If a person is defiled by their own works wouldn't it be true for the opposite? A person is justified by their works as well?

Ezekiel 18:21

[eis]

Now I am really confused. I thought believing was faith. Now it is faith and repentance.

Repentance is a result of having faith, not equal to it. Ask yourself this. Can one repent when they have no faith in which to repent? No, one must have faith to repent. Now, ask yourself this, can one have faith in God and not repent? Yes, for they can refuse to turn from their sin. This clearly shows that repentance is the result of faith, not faith the result of repentance. They are not the same.

Ephesians 2:8-10

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

You will notice that first come Gods grace, then our faith, which completes salvation. After faith, we are created to do His works, through obedience in Him.

So one can be saved and not repent?

Salvation is having faith in the Son of God, believing He died for our sins, rose again on the third day and is sitting at the right hand of the Father. While your faith turns to Him, the Holy Spirit is working inside you to convict you of your sins, turning you to Him. Some say they are going on at the same time, but when you look real close at what happens, and not just skim the surface, you will understand that repentance can not happen until faith first does its work. How can one repent when they have no faith in which to repent? Who or what woudl they be repenting to or for? It is through faith in God that we are saved by His grace toward us. Repentance is a work, whose fruit are seen in baptism, feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, housing the homeless, visiting the sick, the jailed, the widows and orphans, amongst all the other work we do in Him.

1 Corinthians 3:9-15

For we are God