Arizona Governor Signs Controversial Immigration Bill

[wyguy]

I've decided to try to watch CNN at least half the time.

If I watch more than 2 minutes of CNN, (or MSNBC, ABC, CBS, NBC news, etc.) I have a persistant urge to hang myself from the nearest tree.

[Burning_Ember]

Wrong again, B.E. The law is quite constitutional; the states retain the power to make their own laws. Now, if you're such an expert, please point out what in the U.S. constitution is violated by this law. Be precise.

I'd be glad to.

14th Amendment

Amendment XIV

Section 1.

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

The law does not grant equal protection. Unless you can arrest illegal immigrants on reasonable suspicion thereof without discriminating on the basis of race, national origin, etc, then that is in violation of the constitution.

There are Hispanic and Legal Migrants, and tourists from Mexico and other Spanish speaking countries that may very well look no different than Illegal Immigrants.

Existing laws and law enforcement needs a great deal more funding, officers, and resources. THAT is an appropriate solution. This law does more harm than good, in that if you disregard the Constitution and rile up massive grassroots boycotts with severe economic consequences against Arizona, that's probably worse.

[MorningGlory]

Wrong again, B.E. The law is quite constitutional; the states retain the power to make their own laws. Now, if you're such an expert, please point out what in the U.S. constitution is violated by this law. Be precise.

I'd be glad to.

14th Amendment

Amendment XIV

Section 1.

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

The law does not grant equal protection. Unless you can arrest illegal immigrants on reasonable suspicion thereof without discriminating on the basis of race, national origin, etc, then that is in violation of the constitution.

There are Hispanic and Legal Migrants, and tourists from Mexico and other Spanish speaking countries that may very well look no different than Illegal Immigrants.

Existing laws and law enforcement needs a great deal more funding, officers, and resources. THAT is an appropriate solution. This law does more harm than good, in that if you disregard the Constitution and rile up massive grassroots boycotts with severe economic consequences against Arizona, that's probably worse.

This being the operative paragraph...

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

We are talking about those who are criminals and here illegally, not citizens. Any American can be asked for identification if they are pulled over or arrested....and they are. Why do you consistently try to tell US what our

Constitution is all about anyway? I'd venture that you don't know what you're talking about. No offense intended.

[Axxman]

I am curious why Burning Ember thinks they would be arrested if they travelled to Arizona? Do you plan on breaking the law?

Anyone who has been following my comments knows that I had some reservations about some aspects of this new law. I am happy to report that much of what we are being told about how this will work is alleviating many of my previous concerns.

[Burning_Ember]

Axxman, no. That's a very silly conclusion. I'm concerned that if a law says that I can be arrested simply for not having papers on me that I could be arrested for not having papers on me.

It's kind of like how being in favour of the second Amendment or Gun Ownership in general (which I am, believe it or not) doesn't mean that I think everyone should have Anti-Tank Rifles and Missiles.

This being the operative paragraph...

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

We are talking about those who are criminals and here illegally, not citizens. Any American can be asked for identification if they are pulled over or arrested....and they are. Why do you consistently try to tell US what our

Constitution is all about anyway? I'd venture that you don't know what you're talking about. No offense intended.

I re-italicized/bolded the relevant parts. Note the word persons. The constitution doesn't stop applying because someone is a non-citizen, parts of the constitution specify citizens, other parts specify persons. If someone is a non-citizen that doesn't give you the right to beat them to make a law saying non-citizens

The point being that inevitably due to this law, citizens or legal migrants who look like illegal immigrants will be pulled over and questioned. If you arrest Citizens because they look like illegal immigrants, you are abridging the privileges of citizens.

If you arrest people who legally immigrate to America or are tourists who don't have papers, then you violate equal protection under the law.

Constantly saying I don't know what I'm talking about doesn't make it so. I think yod tried something similar about Obama being born in Kenya.

[ayin jade]

The law is clear that you cannot be pulled over just for being suspected of being illegal. The law says that if in the course of a a stop for something like a taillight, which us white folks get stopped for too, then if the cop has reasonable suspicion that the person isnt legal, like oh say he doesnt have a us drivers license, then the cop can ask hey are you legally here. Dont buy into the media hysteria about this law. Read what it actually says. Any non us citizen in the us is required by law anywhere in the us to carry their papers at all times, just as any american who is driving a car must have their drivers license on them.

[Axxman]

Axxman, no. That's a very silly conclusion. I'm concerned that if a law says that I can be arrested simply for not having papers on me that I could be arrested for not having papers on me.

If you arrest people who legally immigrate to America or are tourists who don't have papers, then you violate equal protection under the law.

Constantly saying I don't know what I'm talking about doesn't make it so. I think yod tried something similar about Obama being born in Kenya.

With all due respect...you really don't know. I don't mean that to sound harsh...but I can tell you that as someone whose job is directly related to this new law, and is receiving briefings on how this new law will affect my job...I have a MUCH better real life association with how this law works than you do. In fact, as a State certified ID tech who is licensed by the State of Arizona to take fingerprints and DNA, and use various methods of identifying persons of unknown origin and identity...I am very tied into this law.

You will NOT be arrested for simply "not having papers." That is ludicrous. Officers are tasked with exhausting all avenues available to them to discover the identity and legality of persons they come into contact with. It is not uncommon for officers to bring people they can't identify to me (or the people I work with) to discover those answers...and then let them go on their way. Sure, its an inconvenience to them...but they were the one's travelling with NO means of verifying their identity...not exactly a cops fault. If you speak english (which it appears you do) it would be extremely easy to verify your legal standing.

I have been at this job for quite a few years. Its almost laughable (if not insulting) to think we would just arrest legal immigrants or tourists over something so easily discerned. In fact, under this new law..it is even easier, and faster for police to make those determinations. The Due Process of law under the new law is incredibly fast at the local level compared to how it is now.

Now...why would you travel to any foreign country and not have papers that verified your legal right to travel in that country. You are traveling through a foreign country and don't have legal documentation showing that you are authorized to do so...and its their fault?

[Guest man]

The point being that inevitably due to this law, citizens or legal migrants who look like illegal immigrants will be pulled over and questioned. If you arrest Citizens because they look like illegal immigrants, you are abridging the privileges of citizens.

If you're driving and have the proper identification, which includes everything that is needed to operate a vehicle, you have nothing to worry about. If you're driving around without a drivers licence, you can expect to be hauled off to jail.

If you arrest people who legally immigrate to America or are tourists who don't have papers, then you violate equal protection under the law.

Immigrants should have green cards. People on vacation usually carry some form of identification.

[wyguy]

i'm confused.

what is so difficult about this law? yes, it's just like the driver's license thing. i know there is a law that says i have to carry it when i drive, so i do. i don't see the problem with legals having to do the same thing with papers proving that they are, in fact, legal.

if a hispanic person is breaking no law and a cop stops them to ask for their papers, would not that cop be in trouble for doing so? if the person is here legally, i'm sure the repercussions from him doing that would be great. if the person is not here legally, i'm thinking they will probably be let go. i don't know enough about the law to say for sure, but i think i can safely say that the outcry from others would be immense. so cops aren't going to abuse this law.

i don't know why people cannot understand that. seems pretty simple to me?

It's kinda like what the cops says to people around here: "If you ain't guilty, there's no reason for you to run."

If they are legal, they should be happy to prove it.

[MorningGlory]

Axxman, no. That's a very silly conclusion. I'm concerned that if a law says that I can be arrested simply for not having papers on me that I could be arrested for not having papers on me.

It's kind of like how being in favour of the second Amendment or Gun Ownership in general (which I am, believe it or not) doesn't mean that I think everyone should have Anti-Tank Rifles and Missiles.

This being the operative paragraph...

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

We are talking about those who are criminals and here illegally, not citizens. Any American can be asked for identification if they are pulled over or arrested....and they are. Why do you consistently try to tell US what our

Constitution is all about anyway? I'd venture that you don't know what you're talking about. No offense intended.

I re-italicized/bolded the relevant parts. Note the word persons. The constitution doesn't stop applying because someone is a non-citizen, parts of the constitution specify citizens, other parts specify persons. If someone is a non-citizen that doesn't give you the right to beat them to make a law saying non-citizens

The point being that inevitably due to this law, citizens or legal migrants who look like illegal immigrants will be pulled over and questioned. If you arrest Citizens because they look like illegal immigrants, you are abridging the privileges of citizens.

If you arrest people who legally immigrate to America or are tourists who don't have papers, then you violate equal protection under the law.

Constantly saying I don't know what I'm talking about doesn't make it so. I think yod tried something similar about Obama being born in Kenya.

If you don't want me to say (in a nice way) that you don't know whereof you speak, then stop trying to tell Americans about America. I mean no offense, B.E., but you don't live here and you're just repeating what you hear in the news. Why not move here and experience the frustration first hand as the Canadians I know have done? They are appalled by the huge illegal population in Houston, btw.