Sin, once repented, always forgiven?

[Orr v'emet]

Tess, this thread has a negative tone to it so I would have to agree with DIME. Perhaps one should be less defensive and a little more willing to understand what others are trying to say. Bob and Called have been OSAS believers at some point in their lives and they are merely trying to tell you why they believe it is wrong. It's really one of those areas in the Bible where you can gather scripture to support either side. Bob and Called are mearly trying to warn others of the dangers that a belief in OSAS can lead to. It's not an avoidance of the questions you ask. For a young lady you put up a very good argument...I give you my props!

[Guest LCPGUY]

I really don't want to be involved in this discussion anymore. At least not in this thread.

Most of the problem with discussing this issue is that the posts go so fast, there isn't enough time to make a rebuttal to every post.

People make a point, then move on. The other people make a point and move on.

Nothing is really dealt with here and the misunderstandings cause conflict.

If it helps you at all, your last posts were on page 5. If you'd like to respond to me or Super Jew you're free to make a new topic or whatever. I disagree that the conflict is due to the posts going so fast. I think conflict occurs when someone tells another person their belief is wrong, but fails to show them clearly how. Whenever someone has presentd a Scripture, it has been out of context or misinterpretted. Then, instead of responding to the verse, they move on and jump to something else...or decide they don't want to participate in the discussion anymore.

I may only be 15, but I've had this discussion MANY times with MANY believers. I always approach it with an open mind and heart and the same thing always happens. The ppl trying to prove me wrong get exasperated and never clearly explain the Word. It's easy to throw out a verse here and there out of context and without using the orginal text and create your own theology around it. It's hard to look deeper and search for understanding. To this day, I have yet to have someone refute John 10:28, or Matthew 7:23 (not to mention all the others I have posted). All my questions are avoided. I'm even practically chastised for requesting to have scriptural proof. This is an important issue for me. I am a physical orphan, so I take it very seriously when someone threatens my spiritual adoption; telling me it is conditional and not fully secure.

Tess, you and Super Jew are right on track in my opinion. John 10:28-29 sums it all up quite well.

In His Love,

Bro John

[Guest Puddin]

Ok, someone sins. They repent and seek to sin no more in that way. Down the track they find that evidence of that sin still exists. Possible effects of that sin are physical harm and or spiritual attack. What happens then? Does God COVER that person so that they are not harmed, whilst allowing the spiritual attack to strengthen and refine their faith?

Puddin

[VRSpock]

I know I said we really didn't want this to turn into a OSAS debate, but we can discuss it civilly since there are lot of misconceptions about it going around........I guess I'd ask you straight out if you believe in once saved always saved and we'll take it from there  (  if you don't mind answering   )

God bless,

Bob

Yes, that's what I believe. Is the primary belief around here otherwise?

I believe "Once Saved, Always Saved"...but, who is really saved? This can only be answered between each person individually and God.

Matthew 7:22-23

"Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I NEVER KNEW YOU: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

I think this is a message to those who pray vainly for salvation only to willfully commit sin against God again without any conviction of that sin or a desire to overcome it. For them, a rude awakening will take place when they meet God and hear "I NEVER KNEW YOU" be spoken from his lips because they never had a genuine personal relationship with Him or genuine repentance for thier sins.

I believe this is the same message is repeated in Romans only in a different way.

[Guest Puddin]

This is what I am holding on to right now

Genesis 32:26

Then the man said, "Let me go, for it is daybreak." But Jacob replied, "I will not let you go unless you bless me."

I need the reassurance that God is not going to let go of me. Whilst I wrestle Him, wrestling in and of itself is not violent, but instead a struggle of one against the other, not neccessarily being a struggle on both sides. I have issues that I need help with, and in a sense, wrestling with God, allows me to maintain contact with Him whom I LOVE and ADORE. I could never be without my God!

Puddin

Edited August 10, 2004 by Puddin

[VRSpock]

Ok, someone sins. They repent and seek to sin no more in that way. Down the track they find that evidence of that sin still exists. Possible effects of that sin are physical harm and or spiritual attack. What happens then? Does God COVER that person so that they are not harmed, whilst allowing the spiritual attack to strengthen and refine their faith?

Puddin 

Everything serves a purpose. Something negative like someone dying from cancer serves to strengthen others relationship with God and to reveal those who's walk with God has become distant. All bad things serve some sort of purpose, including spiritual attacks in my opinion.

We can all very easily become content in our own lifestyles and not even be aware of the true status of our relationship with God. The bumps in the road of life are there to knock us back into the reality of where we do truly stand with God in our lives. They also may serve to strengthen us from new challenges that we must endure later in life.

To be a good tool for God to work with, we must be forged in fire and sometimes we may question why it is that we are being dipped into that fire. We must realize that it is through strife that impurities will surface and can then be scrapped aside, leaving a good solid tool for God's work.

So I believe it is a refining of sorts.

[apothanein kerdos]

As for John 10:28, read verse 27 that says a hearing and following of Jesus is required to be under the promise of verse 28.

In verse 27 we read and learn that the sheep are those that hear Jesus's voice. Pointing to verse 27 as a rebuttal to the interpretation of verse 28 offers no light on the situation. All it proves it does is strengthen the belief that those who truly accept follow Him and will never at any time perish. Thus, I fail to see how this eradicates the interpretation of verse 28.

And for Matthew 7, read Matthew 25:1-13 where Jesus said that some will also hear, "I don't know you." which is the opposite of "I never knew you."

Unfortunately this is using scripture to combat scripture, which is not only has no effect, but is border line heretical (trying to show contradictions within scripture). Matthew 25:1-13 must be read with Matthew 7 in mind.

Cafeteria Christianity is closed. We have to accept all of what Christ and the Bible says, or none of it.

You can't pick and choose here, people.

Then you go ont to say that this thread is too negative after a comment like this?

You are aware that this debate didn't start until 500 years ago when John Calvin introduced his Perseverance of the Saints doctrine into the already established truth of a conditional security, right?

The only problem with this line of thought is to accept this as a valid arguement, one would have to embrace all of Catholic theology. Keep in mind, the only theology we had prior to the 1500's was theology from Rome. Thus, if you want to accept this as a validation of your faith, I highly suggest you begin believing in the perpetual virginity of Mary as well. Keep in mind, church history and theology isn't a cafeteria, you can't pick and choose what to use.

[dgolvach]

I've heard it said by many that once saved and you knowingly still sin that you lose your salvation. Don't we almost always know when we are sinning. I see all sorts of things that I still do that miss God's mark. Some of them I have less trouble with and others well.......I still struggle. Im not saying It's OK to sin. Im just confessing that I do. I pray about it and experience victories and failures. I guess I might sin at 1:45 pm, repent at 3 pm and hope I die before I sin again at 4:15 pm. Sorta YO YO salvation. Your in... then your out. Wouldn't it be great if we could focus on the redemptive work on the cross and not our sins and toxic guilt. If we are saved by being good girls and boys what makes Christianity any different than many other religious codes of good behavior? But if we believe all of our sins are forgiven regardless, dosen't it create in us a greatful attitude that makes us want to follow Christ and try not to sin not out of fear but love and gratitude. And if and when we stumble, just lay it at the cross and move on even if its a daily event. (my case) My own denomination believes you can lose it. I kinda think if you and I could lose it we would and within a few hours. I think that believing that Jesus has saved you from your sins and believing you maintain your salvation by not sinning can't be the same.

Dan(sinner)

[apothanein kerdos]

Dan, you hit the nail on the head. Once we accept the fact that we are saved despite the fact we will continue to sin and will at times deny God by our lifestyles, we can begin to move into the true presence of God's grace.

[Guest LCPGUY]

Dan, you hit the nail on the head. Once we accept the fact that we are saved despite the fact we will continue to sin and will at times deny God by our lifestyles, we can begin to move into the true presence of God's grace.

In His Love,

Bro John