Jewish Question

May 2, 2010

So, are we judged as nations or as individuals? When I stand in front of Jesus on the judgment day, will I be judged as an individual or as a member of the nation called the USA?

We will all be judged as individuals, but that doesn't mean the Lord will not judge nations.

May 2, 2010

based on the context, more than one meaning of the word fits just fine.

Then please prove your point instead of mocking what has been shown to you...and do it in the context of the whole counsel of God, who was speaking, and to whom.

I've done that a few times already and all you have done is argue & ridicule without making a single point except you don't like it. I doubt that goats will like being judged as goats, but it won't help them in that day.

I do think that Jesus knows what He is talking about, but as I have told you in the past, you are not Jesus. I am not taking issue with the words of Jesus, I am taking issue with your view of them, the two really are not one in the same.

I'm just telling you what He said. And I have done it in the context of who He was talking to and why.

You can disagree all you want but your opinion is not going to over-rule His Word. Please prove your point instead of mocking what has shown to you. Please explain why Jesus doesn't actually mean what He says? And while you're at it, please also explain why the Prophet Joel doesn't either.

According to those in this thread, what separates the sheep and the goats is how they treat Israel. Nothing about salvation, nothing about belief in Jesus, just how they treat Israel. I reject that.

And the point is that those who treat His chosen people badly have always been judged as goats, even when they were God's instrument for judging Israel. This is not my opinion so your railing is not against me, but the Word of God. It is a biblical and historical fact.

If you disagree with that, please prove your point instead of mocking what has been shown to you. Your "rejection" does not count as proof or even a reasoned response.

"A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

Do those who hate Israel produce good fruit at all?

Please give a reasonable reason if you think so

I don't. I believe that everywhere and in every situation, people are dividing by sheep and goat already depending on how they treat God's chosen people because, after all, this has been the plan from the beginning. They are a litmus test for everyone's humility.

Bold Believer · May 2, 2010

based on the context, more than one meaning of the word fits just fine.

Then please prove your point instead of mocking what has been shown to you

I do think that Jesus knows what He is talking about, but as I have told you in the past, you are not Jesus. I am not taking issue with the words of Jesus, I am taking issue with your view of them, the two really are not one in the same.

I'm just telling you what He said.

Please prove your point instead of mocking what has shown to you. Where was Jesus wrong about what He said?

According to those in this thread, what separates the sheep and the goats is how they treat Israel. Nothing about salvation, nothing about belief in Jesus, just how they treat Israel. I reject that.

And the point is that those who treat His chosen people have always been judged as goats. This is not my opinion so your railing is not against me but the Word of God. It is a biblical and historical fact.

If you disagree with that, please prove your point instead of mocking what has been shown to you.

"A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

Do those who hate Israel produce good fruit at all?

Please give a reasonable reason if you think so

I don't. I believe that everywhere and in every situation, people are dividing by sheep and goat already depending on how they treat God's chosen people because, after all, this has been the plan from the beginning. They are a litmus test for everyone's humility.

The unbelieving Jews are not God's chosen people however, they are living in disbelief. The epithet 'God's chosen people' rightly belongs to Believers, Jew or Gentile ethnically. If you don't believe in Messiah, YOU ARE A GENTILE IN HEART, regardless of your original ethnic origin. Nobody who refuses to believe in Jesus is a part of God's chosen people.

May 2, 2010

So, are we judged as nations or as individuals? When I stand in front of Jesus on the judgment day, will I be judged as an individual or as a member of the nation called the USA?
We will all be judged as individuals, but that doesn't mean the Lord will not judge nations.

not in the context of the Matt 25 passage

Explain.

May 2, 2010

The unbelieving Jews are not God's chosen people however, they are living in disbelief. The epithet 'God's chosen people' rightly belongs to Believers, Jew or Gentile ethnically. If you don't believe in Messiah, YOU ARE A GENTILE IN HEART, regardless of your original ethnic origin. Nobody who refuses to believe in Jesus is a part of God's chosen people.

The jews were in open rebellion against God long before the advent of Yeshua...yet God still called them "His inheritance"

They are His "chosen people" and that is irrevocable as Romans 11 makes quite clear.

All the theological gymnastics of greeks will not change it.

Those who have been joined to Israel, have now become adopted into His chosen people...but apart from joining the remnant of Israel, they are still lost. All this 2-House junk you are spouting is no different than Replacement theology from the other direction. It might sound wise on the surface but has no biblical basis in truth.

May 2, 2010

The unbelieving Jews are not God's chosen people however, they are living in disbelief. The epithet 'God's chosen people' rightly belongs to Believers, Jew or Gentile ethnically. If you don't believe in Messiah, YOU ARE A GENTILE IN HEART, regardless of your original ethnic origin. Nobody who refuses to believe in Jesus is a part of God's chosen people.

You don't seem to understand why Israel was chosen or what Israel was "chosen" for

The jews as a people have been in open rebellion against God since long before the advent of Yeshua. Doesn't matter, God still called them "His inheritance"

They are His "chosen people" and that is irrevocable as Romans 11 makes quite clear.

All the theological gymnastics of greeks will not change it.

Those who have been joined to Israel, have now become adopted into His chosen people...but apart from joining the remnant of Israel, they are still lost. All this 2-House junk you are spouting is no different than Replacement theology from the other direction. It might sound wise on the surface but has no biblical basis in truth.

Bold Believer · May 2, 2010

The unbelieving Jews are not God's chosen people however, they are living in disbelief. The epithet 'God's chosen people' rightly belongs to Believers, Jew or Gentile ethnically. If you don't believe in Messiah, YOU ARE A GENTILE IN HEART, regardless of your original ethnic origin. Nobody who refuses to believe in Jesus is a part of God's chosen people.

The jews were in open rebellion against God long before the advent of Yeshua...yet God still called them "His inheritance"

They are His "chosen people" and that is irrevocable as Romans 11 makes quite clear.

All the theological gymnastics of greeks will not change it.

Those who have been joined to Israel, have now become adopted into His chosen people...but apart from joining the remnant of Israel, they are still lost. All this 2-House junk you are spouting is no different than Replacement theology from the other direction. It might sound wise on the surface but has no biblical basis in truth.

It is Israel which must be rejoined to the tree, not the Believers. IN Christ, there is no Jew or Greek, etc. You as an ethnic believing Jewish person are a Believer. I, as an ethnic Gentile believer, am also a Believer. We are IN CHRIST. The outsider, regardless of ethnic origin is not in the covenant and only true belief in Messiah will place that individual IN the covenant. That is the situation in a nutshell. An unbelieving Jew who dies outside the covenant and an unbelieving Gentile who dies outside the covenant share the same fate: GEHENNA. The Jew's Jewish roots may get him a greater condemnation because the Jews have the Scriptures but refuse to believe.

That is not to say that God has forgotten the Jews, but it IS to say that until Israel believes, she is reduced to the status of one more nation in the world.

wyguy · May 2, 2010

Where does Romans 11:26 and Isaiah 45:17 play into this - where it speaks of all Israel will be saved?

May 2, 2010

The unbelieving Jews are not God's chosen people however, they are living in disbelief. The epithet 'God's chosen people' rightly belongs to Believers, Jew or Gentile ethnically. If you don't believe in Messiah, YOU ARE A GENTILE IN HEART, regardless of your original ethnic origin. Nobody who refuses to believe in Jesus is a part of God's chosen people.

The Jews were in open rebellion against God long before the advent of Yeshua...yet God still called them "His inheritance"

They are His "chosen people" and that is irrevocable as Romans 11 makes quite clear.

All the theological gymnastics of greeks will not change it.

Those who have been joined to Israel, have now become adopted into His chosen people...but apart from joining the remnant of Israel, they are still lost. All this 2-House junk you are spouting is no different than Replacement theology from the other direction. It might sound wise on the surface but has no biblical basis in truth.

Amen Dear Brother, Amen!

If You Know The Power Of The Father And The Might Of His Right Arm

And His Faithfulness To The Called Out Ones

You Should Have Little Problem

Believing His Word

For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble:

and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.

But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.

And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.

Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments.

Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:

And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers,

lest I come and smite the earth with a curse. Malachi 4

Tick Tock

Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once?

for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children. Isaiah 66:8

Tick Tock

Is Ephraim my dear son? is he a pleasant child? for since I spake against him, I do earnestly remember him still:

therefore my bowels are troubled for him; I will surely have mercy upon him, saith the LORD. Jeremiah 31:20

Tick

The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.

Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem.

And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces,

though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it. Zechariah 12:1-3

May 2, 2010

I mock, you insult, two of the same, yet you dont seem to have an issue with the insults coming from your own mouth.

If you look, you'll see that I'm only responding to your initial attacks. I won't be intimidated or bullied without pushing back. My paternal instinct is as strong as yours so I'm just giving you some of your own medicine, hoping you'll see it.

But you are right, it is wrong of me to do so, I just get amazed by what seems to amount to worship of the Jews, instead of God.

Good. It looks like we're finally getting somewhere.

No one is "worshipping jews" but I do worship A Jew. The Word of God is very clear about His plan to bring a Kingdom that will have the King of Israel ruling and the Law going forth from Zion.