Men to Patch My Mountain!

[Scudbuddy]

Men to Patch My Mountains

For years I remember as an evangelist and as a pastor a cry to heaven to "heal our land!" I heard many a pastor cry this same prayer. Members of our churches would come into our office depressed and broken. Often they would have lost their ability to function without some sort of drug from their doctor. I remember ministering in one church, and every person I prayed for had a drug addiction of one sort or another. I am talking even about some of the elders who couldn't sleep at night without a sleeping pill.

And then God heard our prayers. He sent the Holy Laughter movement, and it was like a rainfall of joy suddenly sprang on us from heaven. At first I was deeply offended when I heard men laughing during the preaching of the Word. But in time, I began to see incredible fruit that could not be denied.

One particular story stands out in my mind. A middle-aged woman had declared to my sister that the laughter movement was of the devil. My sister challenged her to see for herself whether or not it was. So this lady showed up to a renewal service, and during the middle of the service began to laugh violently. The strange thing about this was no one else was laughing, and there had been nothing funny said or done to stir such a reaction. The whole time she was laughing, she was declaring, "This is of the devil!" This went on for 45 minutes until she broke down in tears and cried out "This is of God!" She had been in a depression for over 20 years, and while hearing the word taught in such a powerful environment, found joy overwhelming her. But it didn't stick with her theology. So she fought the joy for as long as she could. She had been sovereignly healed of depression with just a laugh. This healing stuck too.

I was at a prayer service at a church that is experiencing an incredible revival on the streets of their city. This church has made a habit of living in the Presence of God on a continual basis. They do nothing unless God is with them. Because of this, Signs and wonders are the norm on their city streets. I brought a Cessationist friend to see this church in action. (He was a Cessationist, but he is no more.) During this prayer service, some of the members began to laugh with a joy that lifted you up to heaven. But my friend was not used to such displays during prayer. Prayer was a solemn thing. I could see the shock in his eyes as many of the people were laughing out loud for souls. I looked at him and whispered, "Why is it that you are more comfortable with sorrow than joy?" He immediatly got it. And repented for judging a church that was seeing so many souls won, when the church he attended saw so few.

For years the owner of a very prestigious cemetery in America had offered a substantial sum of money to an artist who could paint a Jesus with a joyful smiling laugh. Many artists tried but they could only come up with at best a sickly smirk. He died never seeing the painting he so desperately desired. Why? Because when joy isn't in the mindset of the faithful, joy cannot be transferred to the face of their God. Years after he died, a wonderful painting of Jesus laughing came out that captured His incredible joy. I wonder if that had anything to do with what had hit the church.

Recently I read an interview with a prominent pastor in a leading magazine of the Charismatic movement. This man, though a pastor of a "Charismatic" church, has been a critic of the "Holy Laughter Movement" from the start. One of his comments was that what this nation needed was a "Holy Mourning Movement!" My heart dropped in my lap. I had just seen one of those movements. That was what we all were crying for deliverance from.

Here God had moved our mountain, and now leaders in the church are trying to patch up that mountain so things will be "right again!"

God, We ask you again. Resist this cry to return back to the days of sorrow, shame, and mourning. Pour delirious joy on your church. Embarrass us all with your contagious laughter till we the church finally gets it. This mountain is gone for good!

David Scudder <mailto:dlscudders@sbcglobal.net>dlscudders@sbcglobal.net

[Jedi4Yahweh]

Amen brother,

Pro 17:22 A merry heart doeth good like a medicine: but a broken spirit drieth the bones.

[Guest thankfulone]

Hello -

It's awesome that you've had such a positive experience with the "holy" laughter movement and I agree that there are times for mourning and times for rejoicing. I have had a very different experience with similar holy laughter and other things of the like. I'm not convinced that there is not some cause for cation regarding such movements. However, (as you said scudbuddy) the fruit will tell.

Thankful

[Scudbuddy]

Thankfulone,

Fruit does tell. But even so, it is more important to risk some wildfire, then to have none at all. Dr. George Marsden who is not a Charismatic just came out with a book on Jonathan Edwards that is fantastic. What is different about this is that most of Edwards writings have been lost to his bad handwriting. What we have had has been from others notes. But someone came out with a software program that can decipher chicken scratch. And in JEs case, it has been a goldmine of info on revival, manifestations, theology, and church life.

JE recognized that part of having revival is risking human and demonic reactions as well as the Holy Spirit. But that it was important not to shut it down because of the first two. One, the first two only show that just maybe some sort of confrontation is taking place. When demons manifested in Jesus meeting, Jesus chided the Pharisees about it with this. "By whom do you cast out spirits with?" And then He also explained when these things happened that "The Kingdom of God is in your midst." And two, when you shut down those two, you also shut down the good stuff.

We have looked at this all wrong. We see demons, and think that the meeting is of the devil. But in fact, demons do not show their face unless pressured by the Presence of God.

As far as the human responses, that is good too. Too often church is a place where few emotions are allowed to manifest. This is not good. When the Spirit moves, man should find the freedom to cry, laugh, shake, sob, or any other emotion that releases him from any mental bondage. Yet most churches are like funerals and weddings. You can cry, but do it softly. Unless of course you are praying for souls. Then you can weep. But laughter will get you exorcised. How in the world did that happen?

BTW, Jonathan Edwards wife was under the Spirit for 18 days, and she was not under her own control. But the fruit was incredible. She never suffered with depression again. And many others of his congregation went through the same thing also, and were never the same again.

Charles Finney describes his conversion being an incredible confrontation with joy. Holy laughter swallowed him up, and changed him drastically.

The church because of their own bias, and because of some flesh have rejected a great gift to Gods people. They have seen things they did not understand, and instead of investigating to see if their was fruit, just judged it as demonic.

And guess what? There is a Gallup study on the Toronto Blessing that was done with Margaret Poloma, a socialoligist. This 16 page study shows that by far, the vast majority of those who have attended the Toronto church have had an incredible increase in their devotions, evangelism, peace of mind, community service, and ministry since attending the services. This study was done over a long period of time, and it counters all the criticism by those who have not spent time and money investigating it, but just criticising it. It flys in their faces. And they don't like talking about it.

I have also noted and observed that many of the worst manifestations have come from the visiting critic. 4 pastors visited one renewal service to mock it. When the Spirit came on the meeting, these pastors began to uncontrollably bray like donkeys. The joke about that is donkeys only bray when they are in fear, or hungry. Often we have seen this sort of thing happen to the critics. God has a fun sense of humor.

My own personal experience happened in 1984. I went to my first Vineyard seminar. I was a AG youth pastor, and I had never been in such an atmosphere. The speaker spoke in a very calm voice like a lecture at a college. At the end, he announced that "The Holy Spirit was going to fall on every fourth person. The rest of you just watch and bless it." I couldn't figure out how that could happen. Where was "Just as I am" to pump up the Spirit. And then whammy, just like he said, at the same time, 1 out of every 4 people just fell to the ground and began shaking. I told my wife we were getting out of there. As we were leaving, we got mugged by some prophetess who read our mail. We left confused about such accuracy and yet this display of what we thought must be demonic spirits shaking Gods people up.

A few weeks later, I attended a visiting evangelist from Japan who ministered like the Vineyard pastor at my AG bible school. Since I was a pastor at this church who sponsered this school, I had to keep my reputation spotless. This man bored me to tears. But at the end of the service, he invited anyone with a calling overseas to come forward. He calmly prayed just a few words over us. "Come Holy Spirit and fill them up." Suddenly the very thing I had despised a few weeks earlier was happening to me in a place where it wasn't appreciated. I found first my left leg, and then my right leg shaking uncontrollably. I tried to stop it by slyly moving my hands down to my knees why everybodys eyes were shut. But it did not work. So I just lifted my hands to blend in, hoping no one was looking. And then my left arm was shaking. I grabbed it with my right, but could only slightly simmer it down. I gave up, and then my right was shaking. Before I knew it, I was doing the "Dead fish Worship."

I can tell you that I have never ever been a critic of what I do not understand. I just know, God has ways of convincing you of his mysterious ways. Btw, I lost my Youth pastorate not much later after that. They just never understood that sort of thing.

Since then, I have ministered all over including overseas. And overseas is so much more "flakier" than even Toronto. But their "flakiness" has produced incredible fruit. It just doesn't fit in with our logic, and our "Decency and order." Let me tell you about how God sees decency and order. During Jesus meetings, people came out of the ceiling, demoniacs manifested during the meetings, and the crowd so pressed Him, that healings took place, and He didn't even know who had touched Him.

What is indecent and out of order is our churches where christians with the same ol secret sins and bondages go to church for 50 years, never having been set free from their sin and demons. Why? Because their church would never allow the Holy Spirit to move, in case a demon showed up and disturbed their 3 songs and a sermon routine. That is indecent and out of order with God.

So laugh when joy comes, and remember that God can take care of the flesh better than any of us. And He ain't afraid of demons in our midst. He is the one exposing them.

[Guest thankfulone]

Scudbuddy-

Thank you for your response. I apoligize if you felt in anyway that I was questioning your experience or the power of a Living God and His ability to strach us beyond what we can understand. I base my very salvation on the belief that God can do in me what is impossible for man-make me holy and able to dwell in his Holy presence forever and ever. Amen.

I was referring to a specific experience of mine that was not brought about by my skepticism of the Holy laughter moverment or any other work of God but the oppisite. When I was a very new Christian I was exposed to an extermely destrutive "ministry" the fruit of which caused many to lose heart and leave in despair and deception. I am in no way belittling or casting any shadow of doubt on your experiences or anyone elses and it's awesone that God is using it so mightly in your life. However, decearnment is nessesary and I do recognize the distinction between decirnment and skepticism. Certianly many are skeptics that is not my position, however. Peace be with you-

Thankful

[apothanein kerdos]

I have to say I'm very critical of this movement. For one, I haven't seen any salvations come from it. Two, it's more of a psychological movement than it is a spiritual one. If a person laughs long enough or puts themselves in an enviroment of laughter, they aren't going to feel depressed. This is a no brainer. This isn't necessarily bad, in fact, it's not bad at all. However, to pass it on as the Spirit of God is my hang up. It's putting more trust in the act of laughing than the comfort of God. I've been to the bottom of the barrel with depression, I know what it is to sit at the bottom praying for a way out. The comfort of God is brought on with more than laughter. Much, much more than laughter...

I'm a critic who has been to almost every type of movement you can be to. I do have the spiritual gift of discernment. I can tell you that not once did I discern the spirit of God in those services. I trust that feeling because that same feeling has proven me wrong many times before. I use to believe all forms of tongues were agains the Bible. I did encounter one service recently where I felt the presence of God even though two people were speaking in tongues (and it was being interpreted). Thus I trust this feeling very much. If I do not feel God in a meeting, then I feel I am able to say with authority that He is not.

Does this mean I don't think God wouldn't use laughter? Not at all. I think He could and does. I just think the laughter movement takes it a bit too far.

[Guest thankfulone]

I have to say I'm very critical of this movement. For one, I haven't seen any salvations come from it. Two, it's more of a psychological movement than it is a spiritual one. If a person laughs long enough or puts themselves in an enviroment of laughter, they aren't going to feel depressed. This is a no brainer. This isn't necessarily bad, in fact, it's not bad at all. However, to pass it on as the Spirit of God is my hang up. It's putting more trust in the act of laughing than the comfort of God. I've been to the bottom of the barrel with depression, I know what it is to sit at the bottom praying for a way out. The comfort of God is brought on with more than laughter. Much, much more than laughter...

I'm a critic who has been to almost every type of movement you can be to. I do have the spiritual gift of discernment. I can tell you that not once did I discern the spirit of God in those services. I trust that feeling because that same feeling has proven me wrong many times before. I use to believe all forms of tongues were agains the Bible. I did encounter one service recently where I felt the presence of God even though two people were speaking in tongues (and it was being interpreted). Thus I trust this feeling very much. If I do not feel God in a meeting, then I feel I am able to say with authority that He is not.

Does this mean I don't think God wouldn't use laughter? Not at all. I think He could and does. I just think the laughter movement takes it a bit too far.

Hello Super Jew -

I don't claim to know what others have experienced or to be an expert in dicernmet but my personal experience was quite terrifying. As a new Christian I had never really encountered anything like that before and the person leading the "meetings" was someine whom a few people I trusted considered trustworthy. At first, the behavior was subtle, but it becaome increasing out of control. The leader of the meeting would pass out regularly during conversations as well as many other things. Anyway, I don't believe in throwing the baby out with the bath water- if God uses Holy laughter to heal people- awesome! That's just not what happened in my experience. I agree wih you though that God is either there or He's not(well He's everywhere, but you know what I mean ). In Him-

Thankful

[jesussaves]

I have to use the words of a song to express how much I believe we need the Lord to send His refreshing when we need to be lifted up and strengthened so we can go out and minister.

" Weakened from battle, Satan crept in to steal their lives, don't let a wounded soldier die. Come let us pour the oil, come let us break the bread. Let's minister healing to them. Don't let another wounded soldier die."

Holy laughter, I am sure has lifted heaviness from many shoulders. Like the upper room experience, when people thought the 120 were drunk, we still need to be touched and refreshed sometimes when we have given out so much and need to be strengthened, revived, renewed and refreshed...the three spiritual R's. Sometimes we need to dance and shout and rejoice in the Lord with all our might. Sometimes we just need to be still before Him. However He chooses to bless us, He knows what we need. I know it is real and from the Lord for I have experienced it for myself as He poured over my soul when I needed it. His love is never ending.

[apothanein kerdos]

I have to say I'm very critical of this movement. For one, I haven't seen any salvations come from it. Two, it's more of a psychological movement than it is a spiritual one. If a person laughs long enough or puts themselves in an enviroment of laughter, they aren't going to feel depressed. This is a no brainer. This isn't necessarily bad, in fact, it's not bad at all. However, to pass it on as the Spirit of God is my hang up. It's putting more trust in the act of laughing than the comfort of God. I've been to the bottom of the barrel with depression, I know what it is to sit at the bottom praying for a way out. The comfort of God is brought on with more than laughter. Much, much more than laughter...

I'm a critic who has been to almost every type of movement you can be to. I do have the spiritual gift of discernment. I can tell you that not once did I discern the spirit of God in those services. I trust that feeling because that same feeling has proven me wrong many times before. I use to believe all forms of tongues were agains the Bible. I did encounter one service recently where I felt the presence of God even though two people were speaking in tongues (and it was being interpreted). Thus I trust this feeling very much. If I do not feel God in a meeting, then I feel I am able to say with authority that He is not.

Does this mean I don't think God wouldn't use laughter? Not at all. I think He could and does. I just think the laughter movement takes it a bit too far.

Hello Super Jew -

I don't claim to know what others have experienced or to be an expert in dicernmet but my personal experience was quite terrifying. As a new Christian I had never really encountered anything like that before and the person leading the "meetings" was someine whom a few people I trusted considered trustworthy. At first, the behavior was subtle, but it becaome increasing out of control. The leader of the meeting would pass out regularly during conversations as well as many other things. Anyway, I don't believe in throwing the baby out with the bath water- if God uses Holy laughter to heal people- awesome! That's just not what happened in my experience. I agree wih you though that God is either there or He's not(well He's everywhere, but you know what I mean ). In Him-

Thankful

Oh I certainly hope it doesn't seem like I'm throwing the baby out Who am i do judge how God can move? I know God can move in laughter. Where my problem begins, like in your scenario, is when the service seems dedicated to it.

[Scudbuddy]

Thankful one,

Did not think you were negative at all, and appreciated your comments. Sorry about any negative experiences.

Super Jew,

I liken negative experiences of anything like this. How many people have we seen who had a born-again experience only to turn back into a horrid person who shamed the cross? Yet we would never call an altar call of the devil or fleshy.

Or someone who has spoken in tongues who robbed the church later, and had adulterous affairs? Would tongues get the blame?

Like anything else, our humanity gets mixed up in it all. And though I appreciate the gift of discernment, I find that we in the Christian Community seem only to allow that paticular gift to manifest without question. As long as it is sceptical about anything we are not used to, or understand. But I find that understanding the ways of God are rare, and usually wrong when it comes to the supernatural. I depend on two things. Fruit and scripture. Feelings I leave with any of the other bad mistakes I have made. And I go strictly by the fruit when scripture is silent.

I have seen salvations take place because of the joy. In fact, I ask the Church this. Why is sorrow qualified as the only emotion that God can use? Why if the church suddenly broke into mourning and weeping, that would not be considered indecent and out of order? That in fact most churches including Baptist and other Cessationist denominations would think revival broke out. How is that when laughter is substituted, it is of the devil or the flesh? How crazy can that be? Sorrow is God, laughter is demonic? Talk about the church being out of whack.