Shin Bet Agent Breaks Cover in US for 'Son of Hamas'

[Guest]

All asylum seekers have to have a public hearing. The story was talked up by Mosab himself not the government. I don't think he was ever really considered a major threat but he was worried that he wouldn't be granted asylum and went proactive. I can't say that, if in his circumstances, I might not do the same.

Totally agree MG. I would have pulled out all the stops. I don't blame the guy at all. That doesn't make any of his outlandish claims about being deported true...it just means he was willing to do or say anything to drum up support. He is really good at it and he has the resources so why not use them.

True! True! It's Oh So True! Forgive Me LORD....

And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done. Genesis 8:21

And Because Of Him

Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool. Isaiah 1:18

We Love

There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

We love him, because he first loved us.

If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen? 1 John 4:18-20

And Stand Together

And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also. 1 John 4:21

For That's What Brothers Do!

A friend loveth at all times, and a brother is born for adversity. Proverbs 17:17

[Axxman]

Really??? Crazy stuff?? Like what?

Which is why it was hardly covered or mentioned on any mainstream news media. You have an odd concept of what is hyped. In last weeks, I have seen about three mentions of it in the mainstream media and about as many mentions in Christian media.

Everything I have read never attributes Yousef as claiming that Shin Bet worked for him. I have even watched the interview with Sean Hannity and he never claims to have Shin Bet working for him. No site that mentions him indicates that he Shin Bet was working for him.

Another claim that I cannot find any basis for. Where are you getting this info?

Not even Yousef believed that; hence the reason why he did not want to be deported.

Like I said...you clearly don't even know who you're defending and every single one of these responses is evidence of that. I take it by your responses that you would find the statements made by Yousef outlandish and sensationalistic.

I am saying that the goverment could just as easily had evidence and witnesses and the whole thing could have gone quite differently. I am glad that it didn't. Just because others were thinking that it could have gone differently does not mean they were not being logical.

If the gov't had witnesses and evidence that Mosab was a terrorist he wouldn't have been surfing, writing books, blogging, and doing interview after interview all over tv...he would have been where every other terrorist is that they have witnesses and evidence against. Heck, they lock up suspected terrorists all the time...but you want us to believe that if the gov't had it out for this guy with witnesses and evidence that he would have been allowed to keep right on truckin'. Thats simply not logical. It wasn't logical to believe that a routine hearing...that the gov't all but apologized for having to conduct...was anything more than a formality.

The ONLY reason anyone (myself included) thought that the gov't might have something on him, or something against him...is because of his over-the-top reaction to a routine hearing.

[Guest shiloh357]

Like I said...you clearly don't even know who you're defending and every single one of these responses is evidence of that. I take it by your responses that you would find the statements made by Yousef outlandish and sensationalistic.

I am still waiting for the "crazy" and "outlandish/senationalistic" stuff Yousef has allegedly claimed. I cannot as of yet find him claiming the stuff you attribute to him, so please post these "crazy" claims for us to review.

If the gov't had witnesses and evidence that Mosab was a terrorist he wouldn't have been surfing, writing books, blogging, and doing interview after interview all over tv...he would have been where every other terrorist is that they have witnesses and evidence against.

Yeah, there is evidence of terrorists living in the US and they move pretty freely because despite the evidence, they haven't actually done anything. Simply having evidence is not enough to jail them and so it would not have been enough to jail Mosaub. Even groups like CAIR which openly support radical terrorist organizations is allowed to move freely and publicly and they have a very vocal and notable internet presence.

[Axxman]

No Axx, I read your statements for what they said.

What is making no sense to me is that you say something that gives one impression, and then you say something else that gives another impression.

That is what is confusing me.

And if you are judging Musad's motives with the inaccuracy you are judging mine, then I can conclude that you are wrong.

Since I am not confused at all, I feel pretty confident that I have pwned this topic...lol.

Let me try this. My former comments were based on the over-the-top statements presented by Mosab Yousef in the OP of that thread. My current comments are based on the facts, as they have been learned since that time. The one thing that has remained consistent (and which you consistently ignore) is that I was clear in my previous comments and in my later comments that it was not my intent to judge his salvation or call him a liar. In spite of that consistency you still are operating under the false "impression" that I was judging him and/or calling him a liar in teh previous thread...

[Axxman]

I am still waiting for the "crazy" and "outlandish/senationalistic" stuff Yousef has allegedly claimed. I cannot as of yet find him claiming the stuff you attribute to him, so please post these "crazy" claims for us to review.

Oh geez...sometimes it sux being right. Then you have to do all the work that others were too lazy or simply not smart enough to do for themselves. I GUARANTEE you didn't even try because a chimp coulda googled this stuff! And then...if you get fed up with doing every other persons homework (as I have in the past) and try to make them do it for themselves...they foolishly assume you are wrong or a liar just making stuff up. Second time in this thread i've had to source info that is readily..and easily...available.

Good grief...gimme 10 minutes!

[Axxman]

"And this will show you that I wasn't working for the Shin Bet agenda. In fact, Shin Bet worked for my agenda...

I don't know if you take it seriously or not. I said that the Shin Bet worked for my agendas, and they really did...

directly they would think, "OK, this guy's genius, you know? He's like just doing whatever he wants to do,"

"AMANPOUR: How does it feel never to be able to go back? Or do you think you can one day go back to the Palestinian territory?

YOUSEF: Who told you that I can't go back? I think, with my experience, I can live in my own town and nobody will know that I'm living there, if I want to."

source

[Guest shiloh357]

QUOTE (shiloh357 @ Jul 3 2010, 08:37 AM)

I am still waiting for the "crazy" and "outlandish/senationalistic" stuff Yousef has allegedly claimed. I cannot as of yet find him claiming the stuff you attribute to him, so please post these "crazy" claims for us to review.

Oh geez...sometimes it sux being right. Then you have to do all the work that others were too lazy or simply not smart enough to do for themselves.

Asking you to source your claims is not lazy on my part. I am simply interested in reviewing your sources. You may have access to sources I am unware of. Simply because I am not privy to every source you have may simply because my search engines have different information than yours or I simply didn't put in the right words.

And then...if you get fed up with doing every other persons homework (as I have in the past) and try to make them do it for themselves...they foolishly assume you are wrong or a liar just making stuff up.

Do you need a tissue?

Second time in this thread i've had to source info that is readily..and easily...available.

Yeah, it would be so much easier if we would just take everything you say and assume you are right on every point, never challenge you or ask you to cite your source for your claims. If the board members were willing to be cowed by your "anybody who disagrees with me is an idiot" attitude, it would be so much more pleasant for you, wouldn't it?

Let's examine those "crazy" remarks:

"And this will show you that I wasn't working for the Shin Bet agenda. In fact, Shin Bet worked for my agenda...

I don't know if you take it seriously or not. I said that the Shin Bet worked for my agendas, and they really did...

Context, context contex. Yousef did not say Shin Bet worked for him. Here is the context of those remarks:

AMANPOUR: How was working for Shin Bet stopping killings of Palestinians?

YOUSEF: First of all, as a Shin Bet agent, when I had information about someone, that helped arresting them. When the Shin Bet didn't have information who carried the attack, they had to hit randomly without -- it's not -- they didn't have specific targets.

But when I specified that this person is responsible for that thing, and I had a condition that you don't kill that person -- I remember once I had five suicide bombers in one place, and Ariel Sharon decided to drop a bomb on them, and I said, "I cannot kill them, first, as a Christian, second, as a Palestinian, those are my people, and those people don't understand what they're doing."

Nobody did this in the Shin Bet. And this will show you that I wasn't working for the Shin Bet agenda. In fact, Shin Bet worked for my agenda.

Yousef had a pre-condition in place as part of his participation with Shin Bet, namely that they would not torture or murder the people his information helped to capture. In that sense, Shin Bet was working for "his agenda." He did not claim they were working for him, personally, but that they agreed to allow him to work for them on his terms.

directly they would think, "OK, this guy's genius, you know? He's like just doing whatever he wants to do,"

What was really said:

AMANPOUR: What was their response when you said, "Give me information. I can help you"?

YOUSEF: They didn't want to get involved. They were afraid, simply.

AMANPOUR: Did Shin Bet let you down somehow?

YOUSEF: To be honest with you, I maintained very strong position inside the Shin Bet. I mentioned something to you, I don't know if you take it seriously or not. I said that the Shin Bet worked for my agendas, and they really did.

AMANPOUR: Did they know they were doing that?

YOUSEF: In the -- directly they would think, "OK, this guy's genius, you know? He's like just doing whatever he wants to do," because I was working with lots of conditions. And I remember once they told me, "We don't work with anybody with conditions." I told them, "OK, then goodbye." And they didn't want to lose me. They had no other option.

I'm not telling you that there are lots of Hamas people who work with the Shin Bet or even Palestinians. But there are technologies, there are lots of sophisticated devices today that -- even the Mossad was discovered with every move they did in Dubai by police, not by intelligence. Today -- so think about organized governmental organization.

Again, I fail to see the "outlandish" nature of his statement. He is relating the words of some people in Shin Bet and it reads more like they were being sarcastic. Mosaub is not claiming to be a genius or that people saw him as a "genius" in the absolute sense.

"AMANPOUR: How does it feel never to be able to go back? Or do you think you can one day go back to the Palestinian territory?

YOUSEF: Who told you that I can't go back? I think, with my experience, I can live in my own town and nobody will know that I'm living there, if I want to."

What was really said:

AMANPOUR: How does it feel never to be able to go back? Or do you think you can one day go back to the Palestinian territory?

YOUSEF: Who told you that I can't go back?

AMANPOUR: Well, I'm -- it seems extraordinary if you could tell all this story and describe all these things that you say that you've done and then want to go back into Palestinian territory.

YOUSEF: I think, with my experience, I can live in my own town and nobody will know that I'm living there, if I want to.

AMANPOUR: Because you're so good at disguising and faking your experience?

YOUSEF: I don't want to say that I'm so good, but if I want to go back, I will go back.

AMANPOUR: We talked a little bit about it before, but I want to ask you again. It's one thing to turn your back on your own father.

YOUSEF: I didn't turn my back on my own father. I saved his life. Today he's disowning me while I saved his life. My dad would be killed. When the Israeli cabinets send the pictures and the names of people who would be assassinated, the Shin Bet tried to hide my dad's picture so they don't hurt my feelings to tell me that our prime minister wants your dad dead.

And I said, it doesn't matter. It's not about my dad. It's about everybody on the list. Let's arrest them. Let's put them in prison. I was willing to put my dad in prison to get him away from trouble. I saved his life. He would be -- he was an easy target.

I fail to see the "outlandishness" of what you cite when placed in context of the interview in what preceded and followed his remarks about returning to the territories.

If he returns at a time and manner of his choosing, he believes he can avoid being spotted by those who would kill him. Being deported would not have afforded him that option.

Again, none what you claim to be "crazy" or "sensationalized" is any thing of the sort. YOU the one making more of it than what is there and you misrepsented him and assigned values that are not present to anyone who reads his words in an unprejudiced manner.

[Axxman]

QUOTE (shiloh357 @ Jul 3 2010, 08:37 AM)

I am still waiting for the "crazy" and "outlandish/senationalistic" stuff Yousef has allegedly claimed. I cannot as of yet find him claiming the stuff you attribute to him, so please post these "crazy" claims for us to review.

Oh geez...sometimes it sux being right. Then you have to do all the work that others were too lazy or simply not smart enough to do for themselves.

Asking you to source your claims is not lazy on my part. I am simply interested in reviewing your sources. You may have access to sources I am unware of. Simply because I am not privy to every source you have may simply because my search engines have different information than yours or I simply didn't put in the right words.

And then...if you get fed up with doing every other persons homework (as I have in the past) and try to make them do it for themselves...they foolishly assume you are wrong or a liar just making stuff up.

Do you need a tissue?

Second time in this thread i've had to source info that is readily..and easily...available.

Yeah, it would be so much easier if we would just take everything you say and assume you are right on every point, never challenge you or ask you to cite your source for your claims. If the board members were willing to be cowed by your "anybody who disagrees with me is an idiot" attitude, it would be so much more pleasant for you, wouldn't it?

Let's examine those "crazy" remarks:

"And this will show you that I wasn't working for the Shin Bet agenda. In fact, Shin Bet worked for my agenda...

I don't know if you take it seriously or not. I said that the Shin Bet worked for my agendas, and they really did...

Context, context contex. Yousef did not say Shin Bet worked for him. Here is the context of those remarks:

AMANPOUR: How was working for Shin Bet stopping killings of Palestinians?

YOUSEF: First of all, as a Shin Bet agent, when I had information about someone, that helped arresting them. When the Shin Bet didn't have information who carried the attack, they had to hit randomly without -- it's not -- they didn't have specific targets.

But when I specified that this person is responsible for that thing, and I had a condition that you don't kill that person -- I remember once I had five suicide bombers in one place, and Ariel Sharon decided to drop a bomb on them, and I said, "I cannot kill them, first, as a Christian, second, as a Palestinian, those are my people, and those people don't understand what they're doing."

Nobody did this in the Shin Bet. And this will show you that I wasn't working for the Shin Bet agenda. In fact, Shin Bet worked for my agenda.

Yousef had a pre-condition in place as part of his participation with Shin Bet, namely that they would not torture or murder the people his information helped to capture. In that sense, Shin Bet was working for "his agenda." He did not claim they were working for him, personally, but that they agreed to allow him to work for them on his terms.

directly they would think, "OK, this guy's genius, you know? He's like just doing whatever he wants to do,"

What was really said:

AMANPOUR: What was their response when you said, "Give me information. I can help you"?

YOUSEF: They didn't want to get involved. They were afraid, simply.

AMANPOUR: Did Shin Bet let you down somehow?

YOUSEF: To be honest with you, I maintained very strong position inside the Shin Bet. I mentioned something to you, I don't know if you take it seriously or not. I said that the Shin Bet worked for my agendas, and they really did.

AMANPOUR: Did they know they were doing that?

YOUSEF: In the -- directly they would think, "OK, this guy's genius, you know? He's like just doing whatever he wants to do," because I was working with lots of conditions. And I remember once they told me, "We don't work with anybody with conditions." I told them, "OK, then goodbye." And they didn't want to lose me. They had no other option.

I'm not telling you that there are lots of Hamas people who work with the Shin Bet or even Palestinians. But there are technologies, there are lots of sophisticated devices today that -- even the Mossad was discovered with every move they did in Dubai by police, not by intelligence. Today -- so think about organized governmental organization.

Again, I fail to see the "outlandish" nature of his statement. He is relating the words of some people in Shin Bet and it reads more like they were being sarcastic. Mosaub is not claiming to be a genius or that people saw him as a "genius" in the absolute sense.

"AMANPOUR: How does it feel never to be able to go back? Or do you think you can one day go back to the Palestinian territory?

YOUSEF: Who told you that I can't go back? I think, with my experience, I can live in my own town and nobody will know that I'm living there, if I want to."

What was really said:

AMANPOUR: How does it feel never to be able to go back? Or do you think you can one day go back to the Palestinian territory?

YOUSEF: Who told you that I can't go back?

AMANPOUR: Well, I'm -- it seems extraordinary if you could tell all this story and describe all these things that you say that you've done and then want to go back into Palestinian territory.

YOUSEF: I think, with my experience, I can live in my own town and nobody will know that I'm living there, if I want to.

AMANPOUR: Because you're so good at disguising and faking your experience?

YOUSEF: I don't want to say that I'm so good, but if I want to go back, I will go back.

AMANPOUR: We talked a little bit about it before, but I want to ask you again. It's one thing to turn your back on your own father.

YOUSEF: I didn't turn my back on my own father. I saved his life. Today he's disowning me while I saved his life. My dad would be killed. When the Israeli cabinets send the pictures and the names of people who would be assassinated, the Shin Bet tried to hide my dad's picture so they don't hurt my feelings to tell me that our prime minister wants your dad dead.

And I said, it doesn't matter. It's not about my dad. It's about everybody on the list. Let's arrest them. Let's put them in prison. I was willing to put my dad in prison to get him away from trouble. I saved his life. He would be -- he was an easy target.

I fail to see the "outlandishness" of what you cite when placed in context of the interview in what preceded and followed his remarks about returning to the territories.

If he returns at a time and manner of his choosing, he believes he can avoid being spotted by those who would kill him. Being deported would not have afforded him that option.

Again, none what you claim to be "crazy" or "sensationalized" is any thing of the sort. YOU the one making more of it than what is there and you misrepsented him and assigned values that are not present to anyone who reads his words in an unprejudiced manner.

LOLOL!!! Moments after you read the words for the first time...thank you for reposting an interview that I have seen and read many times. You can try and re-state and re-define his words ANY WAY YOU WANT...it doesn't change what he said...and plainly reiterated just in case you missed it the first time...now you want to pretend that he was trying to relay their sarcasm??? Oh your funny! He plainly said those things and reiterated it because "I don't know if you take it seriously or not..." He was being serious!!! You dug a hole defending the sensational nature of the comments he made while trying to sell a book!

I said it before...you are his audience. He was looking for people that wouldn't dig too deep and would believe everything he said. You're that guy.

Yeah, it would be so much easier if we would just take everything you say and assume you are right on every point, never challenge you or ask you to cite your source for your claims.

In this case it would have saved you some time...lol. Face it, you got pwned in this convo. You were defending a guy on a topic that you hadn't even researched. win some...lose some...all in good fun I hope!

[Guest shiloh357]

LOLOL!!! Moments after you read the words for the first time...thank you for reposting an interview that I have seen and read many times. You can try and re-state and re-define his words ANY WAY YOU WANT...it doesn't change what he said...and plainly reiterated just in case you missed it the first time...now you want to pretend that he was trying to relay their sarcasm???

I only said that about one comment. It read to me like sarcasm "this guy's a genius." That is the spirit of the text as it appears to me. I could be wrong, I don't know.

YOU are the one restating things. You claimed Yousef asserted that Shin Bet was working for him, which is NOT what he said. I don't have read and reread over and over to get a clear picture of what was said. Neither am I trying to redefine any of his words.

You accused him of making up crazy, outlandish stuff and you really haven't supported your claims t and the contexts in which his remark swere made don't support that.

When I think of "crazy" and "outlandish" I have an excpectation of truly incredible claims. Nothing you have presented comes up with that, at least, not by an objective standard.

Oh your funny! He plainly said those things and reiterated it because "I don't know if you take it seriously or not..." He was being serious!!!

Once again, you really have not presented a credible accusation. All the exclamation marks and LOLs will not change the fact that you simply haven't met the standard you erected for your position. It really makes your posts look like an hysterical rant, than intelligent argumentation.

In this case it would have saved you some time...lol. Face it, you got pwned in this convo. You were defending a guy on a topic that you hadn't even researched. win some...lose some...all in good fun I hope

Actually I researched quite a bit. I was looking for the exact statements you attributed to him and they were not coming up on any of the five search engines I used. I knew the stuff you posted already, but since they did not come off as "outlandish" to me, I assumed you had something else I had not read.

The problem was I was going off of your misstatements and misrepresentations of what he said. I could not find it because I was working from your misinformation.

Once I saw that you really didn't have anything meaningful to offer, your position is seen for what it is: Baselss and ridiculous. No thinking person can take you seriously when you overstate, exaggerate, and in some cases oversimplify what people say.

For some reason you think that ranting and blowing smoke and laughing off others' opinions like they are stupidest things you have ever heard amounts to intelligent debate. You are long on rants, but short on substance.

So far, you have not been convincing and you have won nothing, except what exists in your imagination.

[Axxman]

When I think of "crazy" and "outlandish" I have an excpectation of truly incredible claims. Nothing you have presented comes up with that, at least, not by an objective standard.

Ohhhh...so it just comes down to a difference of definitions of the words...lol!!! Well, I think its sensational for him to state, and reiterate, that Shin Bet thought he was a genius (and he was serious cuz he said so) and so they did whatever he wanted and worked for him. Define it how you want...its pretty over-the-top. But hey, it sells books.

Once again, you really have not presented a credible accusation. All the exclamation marks and LOLs will not change the fact that you simply haven't met the standard you erected for your position. It really makes your posts look like an hysterical rant, than intelligent argumentation.

Don't care if you don't like my writing style...it hasn't changed...and it wont. People don't like that i use "..." instead of commas either...lol!!!!

Actually I researched quite a bit. I was looking for the exact statements you attributed to him and they were not coming up on any of the five search engines I used. I knew the stuff you posted already, but since they did not come off as "outlandish" to me, I assumed you had something else I had not read.

Actually, I find it hard to believe that you researched. If you had, then I don't think you would like him as much...and you'd quit saying that I dislike him. Fact is, you are just wrong. You keep saying I don't like him because of his views on Islam. I think that he is pretty dead-on about Islam...but he has incredible compassion for those entangled in it (as I do.) That makes me like him. However, he says some pretty weird things about Israel that give me pause. He is pretty critical of Israel...and if you researched like you claim you'd know that he accuses Israel of being occupiers, and killing innocent children. Even his book (which I'm guessing you haven't read...lol) says this stuff. You are generally more of the Robert Spencer and Pamela Gellar crowd...if you had researched AT ALL you'd have found that even Gellar and Spencer are "distancing" themselves from what they call Mosab's anti-semitic rhetoric. But hey, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt...maybe your softening up a bit.

...and the hits just keep on coming...hehe