Catholicism

[stevehut]

You sure have a penchant for derailing a conversation with irrelevant topics don't you ?

Yup.

It's one thing to be a father.

It's another matter to be called by a religious title.

And was Paul a bishop? I don't think so...

Serving, I think you know the difference.

[sachi]

Sorry for interupting your dialogue there STEVE HUT & SERVING HIM.

The Chruch is the BODY of Christ on earth.

The church universal - all who believe Jesus is the Christ - are a part of this sacred body (1 John 5)

However Jesus is THE WORD made flesh and dwelt among us (Gospel of John 1)

The Bible is the WORD of God - All Scrioture are God inspired (2Tim 3:16)

It is from Scripture we derive the fundamentals of our Christian teaching.

Certainly, here are historical 'facts @ Jesus and about the Apostles and so on

( NOahs Arc) that are not contained in Scripture.

The PURPOSE of Scripture is, REVELATORY, to reveal to us the TRUTH of God, not to give us scintallating details of peoples lives,

or be a text of scientific evidence..

Blessings- sachi

p.s. please don't lock this discussion, STEVE HUT

[ServingHim]

And if the Bible tells me NOT to trust a "different gospel" ( Gal. 1 ) - guess what....I'm not going to trust it.

I know EXACTLY what you mean!!!!!

Let me ask you this - your "father" - the Pope ( and I CRINGE at y'all calling him "father" ( Matthew 23:9 - And do not call anyone on earth 'father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven ) ?

[ServingHim]

You sure have a penchant for derailing a conversation with irrelevant topics don't you ?

Yup.

It's one thing to be a father.

It's another matter to be called by a religious title.

And was Paul a bishop? I don't think so...

Serving, I think you know the difference.

so then the religious title of 'pastor' or 'preacher' should not be used? I don't get what you guys are getting to. Is it that you JUST HAVE to try and prove the Catholic Church wrong, no matter what?!

[ServingHim]

Tradition is not always a good thing.

nor is it ALWAYS a bad thing! :il:

[ServingHim]

It's one thing to be a father.

It's another matter to be called by a religious title.

The Lord, the Apostles and many others Refer to Spiritual Leaders as "Fathers"

Matt. 3:9; Luke 3:8 - Jesus refers to Abraham as our "father."

Mark 11:10 - the people cried out blessed is the kingdom of our "father" David that is coming!

Luke 1:32 - God's angel says Jesus will be great and be given the throne of his "father" David.

Luke 1:55 - Mary says that He spoke to our "fathers," to Abraham and to his posterity for ever.

Luke 1:73 - Zechariah says the oath which he swore to our "father" Abraham.

Luke 16:24,30 - Jesus, in His parable about the rich man, says our "father" Abraham.

John 4:12 - the Samaritan woman asks Jesus if He is greater than our "father" Jacob.

John 7:22 - Jesus refers to the "fathers" who gave the Jews the practice of circumcision.

John 8:56 - Jesus tells the Jews your "Father" Abraham rejoiced that he was to see my day.

Acts 3:13,25; 5:30 - Peter teaches that the God of our "fathers" glorified His servant Jesus and raised Him to life.

Acts 4:25 - Peter and John pray to God and refer to our "father" David.

Acts 7:11-12, 15,19,38,44-45,51-52 - Stephen refers to our "fathers" in the faith.

Acts 7:32 - Stephen calls God the God of our "fathers."

Acts 13:17,32,36; 24:14; 26:6; 28:17,25 - Paul also refers to the God of our "fathers" in the faith.

Acts 22:3 - Paul says he was educated according to the strict law of our "fathers."

Acts 22:14 - Ananias says the God of our "fathers."

Rom. 4:1 - Paul calls Abraham our "forefather."

Rom. 4:16-17 - Paul says that Abraham is the "father" of us all and the "father" of many nations.

Rom. 9:10 - Paul calls Isaac, a spiritual leader, our "forefather."

1 Cor. 10:1 - Paul says that our "fathers" were all under the cloud, referring to the Old Testament spiritual leaders.

Gal. 1:14 - Paul says that he was zealous for the tradition of his "fathers."

2 Tim. 1:3 - Paul thanks God whom he serves with a clear conscience as did his "fathers" in faith.

Heb. 1:1 - the author says God spoke of old to our "fathers."

Heb. 3:9 - the Holy Spirit says that your "fathers" put me to the test.

Heb. 8:9 - God says not like the covenant that I made with their "fathers."

James 2:21 - James says was not our "father" Abraham justified by works when he offered his son Isaac?

1 Peter 1:18 - Peter says you were ransomed from the futile ways inherited from your "fathers."

2 Peter 3:4 - Peter says ever since the "fathers" fell asleep, all things have continued as they were from the beginning.

:il:

[stevehut]

so then the religious title of 'pastor' or 'preacher' should not be used?

Again, I don't have a problem with people possessing titles. Church offices exist for a reason, and they should be recognized as such.

But as Bob pointed out, Jesus said that we should call no man on earth "father". That is a distinction that belongs to God alone.

I believe he meant this in the context of a religious title, not that you can't call your mother's husband "father".

But as long as you mention it, yes the title "pastor" (some versions "shepherd") is in the Bible as a proper title for a church leader.

[BobTriez]

Tradition is not always a good thing.

nor is it ALWAYS a bad thing! :il:

When it conflics with Scripture it is!

[stevehut]

The Lord, the Apostles and many others Refer to Spiritual Leaders as "Fathers"

So I can go to the Pope and Call him "Chuck"?

(His given name is Karol, Polish for "Charles".)

[ServingHim]

[but as Bob pointed out, Jesus said that we should call no man on earth "father". That is a distinction that belongs to God alone.

so I'm sinning then when I telephone my father (you know, my dad) and say, "hello father...how are you today?" Is that a sin against God?