On no, not another threadon Acts 2:38!

[Guest]

Gentle

To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men. Titus 3:2

Hearts

And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 2 Timothy 2:24

Apply Here

But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy. James 3:17

[Guest]

But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. Matthew 15:18

Perhaps Dear Brother e lansing Is Not The Root Cause Of This "Disturbance" Within Our Fellowship

For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God. James 1:20

Wow, just because you can use scripture to show how you feel about me, is the same as telling me directly. So because you think my heart is full of defilement I am defiled. How is this not an attack on me? O help! where are all the morel police like Pault and Parker? Just because I have a different opinion and share it with passion, I am bringing wrath to your fellowship? Someone once said "he who lives in glass houses, should not throw stones". I love ya Joe, but it feels a bit chilly in Fresno.

Amen!

A word fitly spoken is like apples of gold in pictures of silver. Proverbs 25:11

Beloved

Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity! Psalms 133:1

You Are The Fellowship

God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord. 1 Corinthians 1:9

And I Have Wounded You Dear Brother

Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves. Philippians 2:3

Please Forgive Me

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Romans 8:1

>>>>>()<<<<<

Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING

And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;

Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing. Revelation 5:11-12

Love, Your Brother Joe

[Guest shiloh357]

But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. Matthew 15:18

Perhaps Dear Brother e lansing Is Not The Root Cause Of This "Disturbance" Within Our Fellowship

For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God. James 1:20

Wow, just because you can use scripture to show how you feel about me, is the same as telling me directly. So because you think my heart is full of defilement I am defiled. How is this not an attact on me? O help! where are all the morel police like Pault and Parker? Just because I have a different opinion and share it with passion, I am bringing wrath to your fellowship? Someone once said "he who lives in glass houses, should not throw stones". I love ya Joe, but it feels a bit chilly in Fresno.

e

Atually Fresno has it pegged exactly right. You obviously cannot address the issue of ES without resorting to hateful, breathless rants. Fresno, unlike many members here, doesn't lose his temper and is a pretty good judge of character. It is not the fact that you have a different opinion. It is the way you address it that is creating the problem.

[e lansing]

But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. Matthew 15:18

Perhaps Dear Brother e lansing Is Not The Root Cause Of This "Disturbance" Within Our Fellowship

For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God. James 1:20

Wow, just because you can use scripture to show how you feel about me, is the same as telling me directly. So because you think my heart is full of defilement I am defiled. How is this not an attact on me? O help! where are all the morel police like Pault and Parker? Just because I have a different opinion and share it with passion, I am bringing wrath to your fellowship? Someone once said "he who lives in glass houses, should not throw stones". I love ya Joe, but it feels a bit chilly in Fresno.

e

Atually Fresno has it pegged exactly right. You obviously cannot address the issue of ES without resorting to hateful, breathless rants. Fresno, unlike many members here, doesn't lose his temper and is a pretty good judge of character. It is not the fact that you have a different opinion. It is the way you address it that is creating the problem.

How so? I dont have the problem, it appears that you do, not me. if anything my responces are in kind to you and yours. You call it hateful, I call it passion, so you prove nothing and have no points. We just agree to disagree. Arent you the one who said to me "I openly defy you"? I take you up on your challange with passion and now its hateful! So when Jesus called the Pharisees white washed tombs or bunch of vipers, or your father is satan the father of lies, was He being hatful? No, He was not. He was just calling as He sees it. So I will follow Jesus example, I calls it the way I sees it! If you do not like it, do not respond to me. But you cannot help it, you are the hero here at WF btw, I think Joe is a grown man and can speak for himself, but o I forget your the hero

e

[A Disciple]

Does anyone else ever think that all these legalistic debates we get into about the intricate meanings of scripture probably look pretty funny to God? These things we make such "wars" over are probably attempts at giving some understanding to finite minds of things that are well beyond the finite - completely beyond our reach. I do not think He will be looking at checkmarks on a list when I am evaluated at the end. He will know my very heart - no secrets - and He will do justice without referring to a list of statutes I might try to hide behind. That is frightening enough - immersion baptised and all!

A Disciple

[kuhugaboots]

yes good one joe " the one greater who will baptise you with the spirit AND WITH FIRE" everyone always forgets this part ,and

that is the most important part!

yes because we all are going to get "fired up" one way or the other!

Man sometimes wishes he can avoid both of those two things ( that the one greater than john brings )and stick with the baptism in water part ... but you can't and know him, and trust that ONE. there is three baptisms..

so the question really is " can YOU'en's call yourself a "christian" and go to hell".and the bible already answers that (jesus say " I never knew you" to some).

so the better question is " if the father calls someone a Christian can you go to hell" I think the answer is NO we won't .

because the good new is "for those who overcome" and that is conditional and so I believe in a " the results based doctrine " if you don't get the results, you didn't have the faith in him for the process! how do you get the results?...

so oh yes that ( one greater's ) baptisms in Spirit and FIRE thingy! (again)

Edited August 2, 2010 by kuhugaboots

[kuhugaboots]

Ps oops I hope you know ...Joe that didn't mean YOU ! I mean yous/you'ens/us all/mankind/anyone .

[Guest]

Ps oops I hope you know ...Joe that didn't mean YOU ! I mean yous/you'ens/us all/mankind/anyone .

:24:

Amen!

I Am Blessed

Be Blessed Beloved Daughter Of The KING

Love, Your Brother Joe

PS; Sisters Are Allowed To Kick Their Pesky Brothers In The Shines One Or Twice A Day Don't Cha Know

[Rick-Parker]

Atually Fresno has it pegged exactly right. You obviously cannot address the issue of ES without resorting to hateful, breathless rants. Fresno, unlike many members here, doesn't lose his temper and is a pretty good judge of character. It is not the fact that you have a different opinion. It is the way you address it that is creating the problem.

That is the reason for my response. It has nothing to do with what I believe, and everything to do with your rant about EC, and your calling it "drivel." I respect your belief in working to keep your salvation, but you don't respect the saved by grace which is secured by the Holy Spirit belief. Otherwise, you would not label it as you do. It is very disrespectful. If I offended you, I'm sorry.

[kuhugaboots]

Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."

Here's the text of acts 2:38. Some people in here have suggested that the word "for" (Greek: eis) causes the sentence to mean "because your sins are already forgiven."

But if this is the case, then...at what point were they forgiven? I don't know, what do you think? As far as I can tell, up this point, the people did nothing and nothing happened to them. Given the broader teaching of the Bible, in both testaments, it seems strange to suggest that repentance should follow salvation.

Any takers?

Acts 2:38 is not formula, nor is it a doctrinal statement. People grab this and about 4or 5 other verses from various contexts and string them together to make it appear that baptism is necessary for salvation. There is no doctrinal treatment of baptism in the New Testament which demands that baptism is a necessary precondition for salvation. Anyone can string some verses together, apply a hyper-literal understanding to those verses and make the Bible pretty much say whatever they want it to say.

Repentance is not a one-time event. Repentance is or at least, should be a continuous part of our lives, every day. We should live in an attitude of repentance.

right .. some well maybe like early on( or yes even now days )the gentiles may have received the baptism of the spirit before the baptism of the water=john the baptism..= law/repentance. or else who but the spirit could teach them the true meaning of repentance and the beauty and protection and blessings of HIS laws , or what sin even is or was .. some maybe have true events of cleansing Fire in their lives to burn out dross and never come to events/knowledge of true repentance and truely understand that concept and it's power in our daily lives or to events of his spirit and really learn to follow him even in our smallest moments .

I think we have to have these three events somehow in our lives, the order is his business.. these events are in order to really know him and follow him so that He is" LORD of ALL" our life . all three mentally, emotionally and physically immersed events that put tools and gifts in our tool box for his work and Armour on us for our protection and write his laws in our hearts/minds and soul.

I do not believe water/knowledge of sin does all that is required and the law alone does all of that. though it USUALLY starts with repentance to some degree.

but I have to say I have seen it start with the spiritual baptism first . now that I think about, I had a wonderful old friend who was an old burned out alcoholic when we first met him and he wasn't long for this world and he couldn't even read.

So he got baptized in the spirit first> Then at night during his dreams the pages of the bible would slowly turn, night after night he had this dream. he would wake up in the morning and be able to quote whole pages of the bible. and in his sleep he learned to read. after just 6 months of bible dreaming he could read the whole thing and understood it. and even more Bizarre he really believed it!

He had alot of bad years to make up for and boy did he! His short little " 2nd life" really was something to see. and Boy did he love the lord and was so grateful to him .. about 4 years later he died of cancer , but he had raised the dead and heal alot of people.. and prayed like crazy for untold numbers. He would call you the next morning and say " you had a headache last night and couldn't sleep and I was praying for you . and he was right. or he would say " what were you doing yesterday at three o clock " did you almost get hit by a car? because I was praying about that.."

so sometimes the baptisms go opposite from our ideas of "normal" or you know correct or incorrect 'doctrinal' theory.

maybe the point being one immersion will/should lead up to the others.

Edited August 2, 2010 by kuhugaboots