Is America the Great Babylon?

[BlindSeeker]

I understand your points. But the E.U and the U.N (representing all nations) have required the same. And many, many nations are guilty of the same things you state America is guilty of with regards to their courting of a false gospel and false religions and suppression of the true gospel.

With regard to Europe, one European "Jihad watch" group says,

"The European Union acts secretly, with the European people being deceived about its development. Democracy is being deliberately removed, the latest example being the Lisbon treaty. However, the plan goes much further with an ultimate goal of being a European-Arabian super-state, incorporating Muslim countries of north Africa and the Middle East in the European Union. This is already initiated with the signing of the Barcelona treaty in 95 by the EU and nine north African states, and it became effective the first of January, 2010 - this year. It is also known as the Euro-Mediterranean co-operation. In return for some European control of oil resources, Muslim countries will have unfettered access to technology and movement of people into Europe. The price Europeans will have to pay is the introduction of sharia law and removal of democracy."

After the end of WWII, General Charles de Gaulle of France envisioned a strong and united Europe as a counter-weight to American supremacy, which he loathed. In order to do achieve this goal, he had to begin a decades-long process of signing (and convince European Community nations to sign) a host of economic, political, social and military agreements with the Arab-League nations in order to create a Euro-Arab trade block. This is why there are so many Muslims in Europe today. History text books at European universities were changed to placate Arab-Muslim sensitivities for example.

Muslim couples living in British and European cities have on average 8 children per couple. Indigenous Brits and Europeans have on average 1,8 children per couple. Already there are concerns that within the next 20 years huge parts of European countries will have a majority of Islamic voters.

I don't have to say more. I think you get the picture. America is not the only superpower in the world and America is not alone with regards to the sins you mention in your post. Maybe America will be part of a Euro-Arab empire one day, but I don't think America will dominate such an empire. It will be dominated from the region of ancient Babylon. It could be that the whore is Islam, and the ten regional rulers will eventually fight against Islam, destroying the throne of the Euro-Arab empire.

But you could be right, not saying you're wrong. Just saying that I don't know who exactly Babylon the Great is yet, neither do I know what the 8th kingdom is going to look like.

Your post only serves to support my convictions that the ten kings (the EU) are the ones who will fulfill the will of God and bring about America's annihilation.

Re 17:16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

Again, based on this verse I have long taught the coming common currency between America and the EU. The "logic" for it is easy to see, to stabilize "our" economy in the face of China's growing economic and military might. The greedy motives of man are but the vices whereby they are led forth to their own destruction.

But the fact is, logic has no real part in anything. Man is sinful and taken captive at will. Led as dumb sheep to their own slaughter by powers and principalities attempting to desecrate God's glory by taking that which was created in His own image and moving humanity with greedy hate to the destruction of each other. Ultimately trying to destroy Israel itself, the witness of God's power and sovereignty in the affairs of men.

America will be destroyed. The EU community will be greatly damaged. China and Russia will greedily rush forth on the middle east in an attempt to claim the region for themselves . . .

The King is coming.

Jude 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of His saints,

15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.

[MorningGlory]

Your post only serves to support my convictions that the ten kings (the EU) are the ones who will fulfill the will of God and bring about America's annihilation.

Re 17:16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

Again, based on this verse I have long taught the coming common currency between America and the EU. The "logic" for it is easy to see, to stabilize "our" economy in the face of China's growing economic and military might. The greedy motives of man are but the vices whereby they are led forth to their own destruction.

But the fact is, logic has no real part in anything. Man is sinful and taken captive at will. Led as dumb sheep to their own slaughter by powers and principalities attempting to desecrate God's glory by taking that which was created in His own image and moving humanity with greedy hate to the destruction of each other. Ultimately trying to destroy Israel itself, the witness of God's power and sovereignty in the affairs of men.

America will be destroyed. The EU community will be greatly damaged. China and Russia will greedily rush forth on the middle east in an attempt to claim the region for themselves . . .

The King is coming.

Jude 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of His saints,

15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.

I can't believe how many are proclaiming the destruction of the U.S. What is this based upon, Biblically speaking?

[Guest shiloh357]

Your post only serves to support my convictions that the ten kings (the EU) are the ones who will fulfill the will of God and bring about America's annihilation.

Re 17:16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

Again, based on this verse I have long taught the coming common currency between America and the EU. The "logic" for it is easy to see, to stabilize "our" economy in the face of China's growing economic and military might. The greedy motives of man are but the vices whereby they are led forth to their own destruction.

But the fact is, logic has no real part in anything. Man is sinful and taken captive at will. Led as dumb sheep to their own slaughter by powers and principalities attempting to desecrate God's glory by taking that which was created in His own image and moving humanity with greedy hate to the destruction of each other. Ultimately trying to destroy Israel itself, the witness of God's power and sovereignty in the affairs of men.

America will be destroyed. The EU community will be greatly damaged. China and Russia will greedily rush forth on the middle east in an attempt to claim the region for themselves . . .

The King is coming.

Jude 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of His saints,

15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.

I can't believe how many are proclaiming the destruction of the U.S. What is this based upon, Biblically speaking?

It is mostly conjecture. What they are doing is reading America into prophecy, which is the most unreliable and subjective approaches to Scripture. Making America Babylon has only begun to be in vogue in the last few years. Credible theologians and prophecy teachers do not see America as Babylon; rather, they understand the US to be mostly irrelevant and possibly only a minor player in end-time prophecy. A lot of anti-American hippies and throwbacks to the 1960s got old and now they are reading their anti-Americanism into the Bible.

It reads like they are looking forward with anticipation to America's destruction.

[Guest shiloh357]

Does history record an economic calamity as a result of the loss of Jerusalem?

The Scripture certainly did.

Rome began to decline after the fall of Jerusalem and broke into 10 kingdoms, kingdoms which eventually became Christian nations. When an empire falls, I'd say that's an economic calamity, whether or not history records it as such.

Scripture says no such thing. Furthermore, Judea was a minor, backwater region during the 1st century and was not a major player in the economy of the empire, so history doesn't support that assertion either.

[BlindSeeker]

I can't believe how many are proclaiming the destruction of the U.S. What is this based upon, Biblically speaking?

Feel free to review my old threads and

[MorningGlory]

Your post only serves to support my convictions that the ten kings (the EU) are the ones who will fulfill the will of God and bring about America's annihilation.

Re 17:16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

Again, based on this verse I have long taught the coming common currency between America and the EU. The "logic" for it is easy to see, to stabilize "our" economy in the face of China's growing economic and military might. The greedy motives of man are but the vices whereby they are led forth to their own destruction.

But the fact is, logic has no real part in anything. Man is sinful and taken captive at will. Led as dumb sheep to their own slaughter by powers and principalities attempting to desecrate God's glory by taking that which was created in His own image and moving humanity with greedy hate to the destruction of each other. Ultimately trying to destroy Israel itself, the witness of God's power and sovereignty in the affairs of men.

America will be destroyed. The EU community will be greatly damaged. China and Russia will greedily rush forth on the middle east in an attempt to claim the region for themselves . . .

The King is coming.

Jude 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of His saints,

15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.

I can't believe how many are proclaiming the destruction of the U.S. What is this based upon, Biblically speaking?

It is mostly conjecture. What they are doing is reading America into prophecy, which is the most unreliable and subjective approaches to Scripture. Making America Babylon has only begun to be in vogue in the last few years. Credible theologians and prophecy teachers do not see America as Babylon; rather, they understand the US to be mostly irrelevant and possibly only a minor player in end-time prophecy. A lot of anti-American hippies and throwbacks to the 1960s got old and now they are reading their anti-Americanism into the Bible.

It reads like they are looking forward with anticipation to America's destruction.

Yes; that's how it seems to me as well. I really hope it's not anti-Americanism though; I mean that can't be a helpful agenda at a time when we are facing such huge problems. If one is convinced America is evil, and heading for destruction, there is NO motivation on their part to do anything except hide under a rock. I would rather try to change the course of the U.S. myself.

[MorningGlory]

I can't believe how many are proclaiming the destruction of the U.S. What is this based upon, Biblically speaking?

Feel free to review my old threads and

I've read those threads, B.S., more than once. This is only conjecture; it's your interpretation of Revelation. I do give you credit for the amount of thought and research that surely went into those threads though. You may be correct, or you may not be, but what is going to happen will happen regardless. The end result doesn't depend on our belief in one theory or the other; God is in control and His will be done.

[BlindSeeker]

I can't believe how many are proclaiming the destruction of the U.S. What is this based upon, Biblically speaking?

Feel free to review my old threads and

I've read those threads, B.S., more than once. This is only conjecture; it's your interpretation of Revelation. I do give you credit for the amount of thought and research that surely went into those threads though. You may be correct, or you may not be, but what is going to happen will happen regardless. The end result doesn't depend on our belief in one theory or the other; God is in control and His will be done.

Time will tell . . . but no blood will be on my hands.

Ezek 33:2 Son of man, speak to the children of thy people, and say unto them, When I bring the sword upon a land, if the people of the land take a man of their coasts, and set him for their watchman:

3 If when he seeth the sword come upon the land, he blow the trumpet, and warn the people;

4 Then whosoever heareth the sound of the trumpet, and taketh not warning; if the sword come, and take him away, his blood shall be upon his own head.

5 He heard the sound of the trumpet, and took not warning; his blood shall be upon him. But he that taketh warning shall deliver his soul.

6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the trumpet, and the people be not warned; if the sword come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Re 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

[MorningGlory]

Time will tell . . . but no blood will be on my hands

I guess I'd have to agree, B.S.

[lekh l'kha]

Your post only serves to support my convictions that the ten kings (the EU) are the ones who will fulfill the will of God and bring about America's annihilation.

Re 17:16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

Again, based on this verse I have long taught the coming common currency between America and the EU. The "logic" for it is easy to see, to stabilize "our" economy in the face of China's growing economic and military might. The greedy motives of man are but the vices whereby they are led forth to their own destruction.

But the thing is, regardless of what the future of the U.S is, only the following regions of the world are mentioned in Bible prophecy:

1. Egypt.

2. Assyrian Empire.

3. Babylonian Empire.

4. Medo-Persian Empire.

5. Greek Empire.

6. Roman Empire.

7. ??? Empire.

8. "the beast from the bottomless pit who is "of the first 7" empires.

Bible prophecy singles out Egypt and Elam (Persia/Iran) and Edom (Syria/Jordan) etc. Dan.2 and 7 singles out the Babylonian, Medo-Persian, Greek and Roman Empires.

The Medo-Persian Empire incorporated modern-day Iraq, Iran, Pakistan and Afghanistan - so did the Islamic Ottoman-Turk Empire when it was at its height.

These empires also all incorporated North Africa.

Rev.13:2 compared with Daniel 7 tells us that the 8th empire will be a combination of the Babylonian, Medo-Persian and Greek Empires; and Daniel 2 and 7 tell us that it will also incorporate the former Western half of the Roman Empire.

Those areas were "the whole world" to the Bible's prophets.

NOT mentioned in Bible prophecy are the following regions of the world:

1. India and China.

2. South-East Asia, the Philippines, Australia and New Zealand.

3. North, South and Central America.

4. Sub-Saharan Africa.

5. Indian Ocean and Pacific islands.

The whore of Revelation is intimately linked to the first seven empires, and the U.S.A is in a region of the world that never was part of those empires and is not mentioned in Bible prophecy.

So the way I still see it, we can speculate on the future of the U.S.A, but the bottom line is, the U.S.A is nevertheless not mentioned in Bible prophecy. There may be many similarities in the mind of many Christians between the way the U.S.A behaves and the way the Babylonian Empire and all other empires behaved, but that's where the similarity ends, because the U.S.A is a superpower whose super-power status quite possibly (and even probably) is waxing old - for a brief moment in time its had its glory-days, but summer (it would seem) is over.

There are definitely similarities in certain respects between the pride of empires and the U.S.A - for example, I supported (I'm not American) but I supported the U.S invasion of Iraq (although with hindsight I now think it was a huge mistake and America should have saved its fire-power for Iran), but I was nevertheless appalled by the words "Operation shock and Awe" - it reminded me too much of The Great and awesome days of the LORD" and I was sure that that is where full-of-pride military men and politicians had got it from. "America," I thought, "is relying too much on its military might instead of on God". It had me genuinely worried. Then one day I saw Pres Bush say "Islam is a great faith", and I thought, "Mr. Bush, Jesus can hear you, you're looking for trouble, no matter how politically expedient you think such a statement may be". There are lots of statements like that which came out of the mouths of America's leaders from time to time which showed me that they had developed a false sense of security and forgotten that it is God who makes nations rise up and become great and it's God who destroys those same nations. Millions of American Christians have not forgotten that, but too many of America's leaders and secular Americans seem to have forgotten.

So I know why you may think America could be likened to "Babylon the Great".

But America is not the only nation guilty of the things I mentioned above - most nations are also guilty of what America is guilty of, the only difference being that America is one of three superpowers.

But "Babylon the Great" is a religious system in union with and empire - a marriage between religion and state, such as it was in the (Roman Catholic) Holy Roman Empire. And Babylon the Great is linked to the first seven kingdoms; and the first seven kingdoms do not incorporate the United States.

So whatever we can speculate about the future of the U.S, we cannot link that future with anything written in the book of Revelation, because in this regard, America is no different from Australia, for example.

The King is coming.

Jude 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of His saints,

15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.

Amen!