Mary.

[ServingHim]

What does this mean to you ServingHim ?

Galatians 1:6-10

6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel--

7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ.

8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!

9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!

10 Am I now trying to win the approval of men, or of God? Or am I trying to please men? If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a servant of Christ.

Is that unclear in anyway ?

In Him,

Bob

Did you know that the Church Fathers were the closest to the Apostles and whatever we have, came to us through them. To qualify as a Church Father, four conditions had to have been met.

1. He had to have lived before the year 800. The last Father in the East was St. Damascene 674-749, and of the West was, St. Bede the Venerable 672-735.

2. He had to have followed the orthodox teaching, faithful to the true doctrines of the Church.

3. He had to have Sanctity. All major Fathers and most minor Fathers were canonized Saints, and lived virtuous lives.

4. He had to have the sanction of the Church, a general acceptance.

They are divided into 2 groups, 39 Latin and 49 Greek Fathers. Some of the most prominent ones are:

Latin Fathers, Western:

St. Irenaeus of Lyons (d 202), Bishop.

St. Cyprian (d 258), Bishop.

St. Damasus I (d 384),

St. Ambrose of Milan (d 397), Bishop of Milan.

St. Jerome (d 420), priest.

St. Augustine (d 430), Bishop of Hippo.

St. Peter Chrysologus (d 450), Archbishop of Ravenna.

St. Leo the Great (d 461), Pope.

St. Fulgentius (d 533), Bishop of Ruspe.

St. Benedict (d 546), father of Western monasticism.

St. Gregory the Great (d 604), Pope.

St. Isadore (d 636), Archbishop of Seville.

St. Bede the Venerable (d 735), Doctor, last Father of Western Church.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Greek Fathers, Eastern... * means an Apostolic Father.

St. Clement of Rome * (d 97), Pope

St. Ignatius of Antioch * (d 107), Bishop of Antioch.

St. Polycarp * (d 155), Bishop of Smyrna.

St. Justin Martyr (d 165), apologist.

St. Clement of Alexandria (d 215), theologian.

St. Hippolytus (d 236), martyr.

Eusebius (d 340), Bishop of Caesarea.

St. Julius I (d 352), Pope.

St. Athanasius (d 373), Archbishop of Alexandria.

St. Basil the Great (d 379), Archbishop of Caesarea.

St. Gregory of Nazianzus (d 390), Bishop of Sasima

St. Gregory of Nyssa, Basil's brother (d 395)

St. John Chrysostom (d 407), Patriarch of Constantinople.

St. Nilus (d 430), priest and monk.

St. John Damascene (d 749), last Father of the Eastern Church.

Do you believe that ANY of these people are worth reading their studies/faith? Why or WHY NOT? IF these fathers learned directly from the Apostles, who in turn taught the next generation, wouldn't you think that they WERE WORTHY of reading and learning from them?

[nebula]

When Jesus was tempted by Satan, He quoted from the Torah - He didn't make up new words.

When Jesus was walking on the Road to Emmaus with two of His disciples after He rose from the grave, He referred to the Torah to tell them the Messiah would die and rise again.

When Paul preached to the people, he was always going back to the Torah.

He didn't go to Peter's word.

So, here we stand, eye to eye - both convinced the other is terribly, terribly deceived. I'll admit that you are better at this debate game than I am. Doesn't mean I agree with anything you said - but you are better at this. Trained perhaps?

So be it.

You go running to the Pope for your wisdom and revelation. I'll seek to learn the voice of the Holy Spirit for myself. I hope you can learn this joy some day, too.

Ciao!

(I need ot focus on getting ready for school anyway....)

[BobTriez]

What does this mean to you ServingHim ?

Galatians 1:6-10

6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel--

7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ.

8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!

9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!

10 Am I now trying to win the approval of men, or of God? Or am I trying to please men? If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a servant of Christ.

Is that unclear in anyway ?

In Him,

Bob

Did you know that the Church Fathers were the closest to the Apostles and whatever we have, came to us through them. To qualify as a Church Father, four conditions had to have been met.

1. He had to have lived before the year 800. The last Father in the East was St. Damascene 674-749, and of the West was, St. Bede the Venerable 672-735.

2. He had to have followed the orthodox teaching, faithful to the true doctrines of the Church.

3. He had to have Sanctity. All major Fathers and most minor Fathers were canonized Saints, and lived virtuous lives.

4. He had to have the sanction of the Church, a general acceptance.

They are divided into 2 groups, 39 Latin and 49 Greek Fathers. Some of the most prominent ones are:

Latin Fathers, Western:

St. Irenaeus of Lyons (d 202), Bishop.

St. Cyprian (d 258), Bishop.

St. Damasus I (d 384),

St. Ambrose of Milan (d 397), Bishop of Milan.

St. Jerome (d 420), priest.

St. Augustine (d 430), Bishop of Hippo.

St. Peter Chrysologus (d 450), Archbishop of Ravenna.

St. Leo the Great (d 461), Pope.

St. Fulgentius (d 533), Bishop of Ruspe.

St. Benedict (d 546), father of Western monasticism.

St. Gregory the Great (d 604), Pope.

St. Isadore (d 636), Archbishop of Seville.

St. Bede the Venerable (d 735), Doctor, last Father of Western Church.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Greek Fathers, Eastern... * means an Apostolic Father.

St. Clement of Rome * (d 97), Pope

St. Ignatius of Antioch * (d 107), Bishop of Antioch.

St. Polycarp * (d 155), Bishop of Smyrna.

St. Justin Martyr (d 165), apologist.

St. Clement of Alexandria (d 215), theologian.

St. Hippolytus (d 236), martyr.

Eusebius (d 340), Bishop of Caesarea.

St. Julius I (d 352), Pope.

St. Athanasius (d 373), Archbishop of Alexandria.

St. Basil the Great (d 379), Archbishop of Caesarea.

St. Gregory of Nazianzus (d 390), Bishop of Sasima

St. Gregory of Nyssa, Basil's brother (d 395)

St. John Chrysostom (d 407), Patriarch of Constantinople.

St. Nilus (d 430), priest and monk.

St. John Damascene (d 749), last Father of the Eastern Church.

Do you believe that ANY of these people are worth reading their studies/faith? Why or WHY NOT? IF these fathers learned directly from the Apostles, who in turn taught the next generation, wouldn't you think that they WERE WORTHY of reading and learning from them?

I can copy/paste too Not trying to agitate this discussion, but I'd REALLY like to hear YOUR thoughts/defence on it and a direct answer to my question.....

God bless,

Bob

[ServingHim]

So why then are you preaching another Gospel - with is really no gospel at all ?

I don't believe that the gospel that I've come to know and love IS 'another' gospel...but the one of protestantism is the 'different' one. But again, it's MY opinion, just like how you feel about what I believe. I guess someday we'll all know. But the basics of the 'gospel', we ALL have in common, don't you think. And if you go and tell me that Catholics aren't Christian, then you'll have to answer to a higher power...it won't insult me, for it will only bless me... :il:

[ServingHim]

When Jesus was tempted by Satan, He quoted from the Torah - He didn't make up new words.

Then why can't these words of Jesus Christ be found anywhere in the BIBLE? In Acts 20:35, it says, "Remember the word of the Lord Jesus, that He Himself said, 'It is more blessed to give than to receive'". Where in Scriptures did Jesus get THIS from? Also, St. John say everything is NOT in the Bible? John 20:30,21:25 Is this meaningless?

[Guest LadyC]

All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 2 Tim 3:16

exactly our point to you. it's for teaching, correcting, reproving, etc.... and the RCC doctrine is not exempt from that usage. all comes back to the scriptures being the final authority, not the doctrine of a church, no matter how ancient their traditions. when all is said and done, it has to line up with scripture.

God gave us all a brain, and expects us to use it. the bereans set the example for us in doublechecking what we are taught by the church (in their case the apostles themselves) was scriptural. scripture does not tell us to blindly follow what we are taught by the church, it tells us to examine it against scripture. this has nothing to do with private interpretation, it has to do with reading/studying/trusting God's word above all other.

and since the subject of private interpretation keeps being used as a poison arrow against anyone here who does not swallow the unscriptural teachings of the RCC, may i remind you that even the first pope was an individual human being, and thus just as fallible to perpetual private interpretation?

servinghim, if i could pray just one prayer for you, it would be that God would open your eyes to the fact that, if God didn't say it, it just ain't so.

[ServingHim]

So, here we stand, eye to eye - both convinced the other is terribly, terribly deceived.

oh so true!

I'll admit that you are better at this debate game than I am.  Doesn't mean I agree with anything you said - but you are better at this.  Trained perhaps?

no, just a wife and mother of 3 and a part-time interior decorator who happens to be passionate about her Lord Jesus Christ and defending His Body, the Church. :il:

So be it.

neb, we're not in a competition on who Jesus loves more...He loves us ALL EQUALLY!

You go running to the Pope for your wisdom and revelation.

You mean Christ who is leading His Church through His appointed OFFICE of Pope, which is now the wonderful, beloved Pope John Paul II.

I'll seek to learn the voice of the Holy Spirit for myself.

and when you disagree with even perhaps a family member on what something means, are you automatically the RIGHT one?!

I hope you can learn this joy some day, too.

JOY is not shown through typing online with strangers, dear... You have NO idea the joy...but then how could you. You don't receive Christ's Body and Blood ever? I pray someday you will....then you will experience pure joy!

Ciao!

(I need ot focus on getting ready for school anyway....)

God bless you, neb... :il:

[ServingHim]

What does this mean to you ServingHim ?

Galatians 1:6-10

6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel--

7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ.

8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!

9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!

10 Am I now trying to win the approval of men, or of God? Or am I trying to please men? If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a servant of Christ.

Is that unclear in anyway ?

In Him,

Bob

Did you know that the Church Fathers were the closest to the Apostles and whatever we have, came to us through them. To qualify as a Church Father, four conditions had to have been met.

1. He had to have lived before the year 800. The last Father in the East was St. Damascene 674-749, and of the West was, St. Bede the Venerable 672-735.

2. He had to have followed the orthodox teaching, faithful to the true doctrines of the Church.

3. He had to have Sanctity. All major Fathers and most minor Fathers were canonized Saints, and lived virtuous lives.

4. He had to have the sanction of the Church, a general acceptance.

They are divided into 2 groups, 39 Latin and 49 Greek Fathers. Some of the most prominent ones are:

Latin Fathers, Western:

St. Irenaeus of Lyons (d 202), Bishop.

St. Cyprian (d 258), Bishop.

St. Damasus I (d 384),

St. Ambrose of Milan (d 397), Bishop of Milan.

St. Jerome (d 420), priest.

St. Augustine (d 430), Bishop of Hippo.

St. Peter Chrysologus (d 450), Archbishop of Ravenna.

St. Leo the Great (d 461), Pope.

St. Fulgentius (d 533), Bishop of Ruspe.

St. Benedict (d 546), father of Western monasticism.

St. Gregory the Great (d 604), Pope.

St. Isadore (d 636), Archbishop of Seville.

St. Bede the Venerable (d 735), Doctor, last Father of Western Church.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Greek Fathers, Eastern... * means an Apostolic Father.

St. Clement of Rome * (d 97), Pope

St. Ignatius of Antioch * (d 107), Bishop of Antioch.

St. Polycarp * (d 155), Bishop of Smyrna.

St. Justin Martyr (d 165), apologist.

St. Clement of Alexandria (d 215), theologian.

St. Hippolytus (d 236), martyr.

Eusebius (d 340), Bishop of Caesarea.

St. Julius I (d 352), Pope.

St. Athanasius (d 373), Archbishop of Alexandria.

St. Basil the Great (d 379), Archbishop of Caesarea.

St. Gregory of Nazianzus (d 390), Bishop of Sasima

St. Gregory of Nyssa, Basil's brother (d 395)

St. John Chrysostom (d 407), Patriarch of Constantinople.

St. Nilus (d 430), priest and monk.

St. John Damascene (d 749), last Father of the Eastern Church.

Do you believe that ANY of these people are worth reading their studies/faith? Why or WHY NOT? IF these fathers learned directly from the Apostles, who in turn taught the next generation, wouldn't you think that they WERE WORTHY of reading and learning from them?

I can copy/paste too Not trying to agitate this discussion, but I'd REALLY like to hear YOUR thoughts/defence on it and a direct answer to my question.....

God bless,

Bob

Greetings Bob...I am trying to do as you ask...

So, would you mind answering my question? I had to copy and paste that list...sorry. What's your answer to my question? THanks.

[ServingHim]

All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 2 Tim 3:16

exactly our point to you. it's for teaching, correcting, reproving, etc.... and the RCC doctrine is not exempt from that usage.

I didn't say it was... The Church's final authority stands on a three-legged stool:

Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition, Magisterium

READ HERE for more information

Christ did NOT establish a BIBLE, but a CHURCH...it's CLEAR in SCRIPTURE.

God gave us all a brain, and expects us to use it. the bereans set the example for us in doublechecking what we are taught by the church (in their case the apostles themselves) was scriptural. scripture does not tell us to blindly follow what we are taught by the church, it tells us to examine it against scripture. this has nothing to do with private interpretation, it has to do with reading/studying/trusting God's word above all other.

AMEN!!!!

So tell me...

1. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Lutherans the Eucharist is the true presence of Christ, and then tell the Baptists it is only a symbol?

2. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Methodists it is alright to have female ministers, and then tell the Baptists it is unbiblical?

3. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Seventh-Day Adventists that Saturday is the day of worship, and then tell the Presbyterians the day of worship is Sunday and not Saturday?

4. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Lutherans that the Blessed Virgin Mary was and remains always virgin, and then tell the Baptists she had other children?

5. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Baptists, "once saved always saved", and then tell the Church of Christ that Sola Fides is unscriptural?

6. How can the Holy Spirit tell Episcopalians to baptize infants and then tell Pentecostals infant baptism is invalid?

7. How can the Holy Spirit tell Mormons that the Holy Trinity is three separate persons, and then tell Methodists the Trinity is three persons in one GOD?

servinghim, if i could pray just one prayer for you, it would be that God would open your eyes to the fact that, if God didn't say it, it just ain't so.

So where did GOD say to WRITE THE BIBLE?! And WHERE did GOD say that He is ONE GOD, THREE PERSONS, all found in the 'DOCTRINE' of the Holy Trinity?!

I believe these all because the CHURCH has told us so, and you do to, though you probably won't admit that, even though it is TRUE!~

DO you ever read the great Augustine? Did you know he said ...

"There are many other things which most properly can keep me in [the Catholic Church

[Guest shiloh357]

Was Mary without sin? Let's see what scripture says:

1 John 1:8-10

If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.

No one can claim that they are without sin except for Jesus. The Bible makes no exception for Mary.

Infact, there is even a biblical record of Mary sinning. Behold:

Mark 3:20-21, 31-35

Then Jesus entered a house, and again a crowd gathered, so that he and his disciples were not even able to eat. When his family heard about this, they went to take charge of him, for they said, "He is out of his mind." . . .