Unlock Two Passages and Attain Wisdom

[oak]

First I don’t have an answer and can only speculate and will not be a guide. But maybe, some of you out there have a better understanding of the question and can help me on my journey. Also, even if you are not a Bible scholar, you are welcome and I would be interested in what you have to say. Where do theses passages lead us to?

The scriptural passages:

And he said to them, I saw Satan fall like lightening from ( Lk 10:18)

Now war arose in heaven. Michael and his angels fighting against the dragon

[Hunterpoet]

First I don

[Rick-Parker]

In heaven, Christ was crucified since before the beginning of time.

[oak]

First I don

[oak]

In heaven, Christ was crucified since before the beginning of time.

Parker, you seem to a bit closer than Hunter could you please expand on your answer using the verses that I mentioned.

PS Could someone, anyone out there come close to an answer?

[1Mind1Spirit]

Before Christ was crucified, He foretold alot of things.

As He was with God before the foundations of the world, He knew when Satan would be cast out, before He came here

and also while he was here,and also when He revealed it to John.

While I cannot at this time say for sure, I lean to the idea Satan was kicked out of heaven as soon as Christ ascended to the Father.

And that he is here making war with those who have the testimony of Christ.

[1Mind1Spirit]

While I cannot at this time say for sure, I lean to the idea Satan was kicked out of heaven as soon as Christ ascended to the Father.

Which begs the question of when was Satan cast out of heaven. If he was kicked out after the ascension, there would have been no need for Jesus to go to Calvary, thus no ascension. There is an entire thread devoted to the question of when Satan was thrown out of heaven so I won't rehash it here. However, it seems entirely plausible that Jesus was predicting a (then) future attempt by Satan and his minions to retake Heaven by force, assuming that Revelation is a literal account. If it is allegorical, then that opens a whole other can of interpretive worms. All of this, of course, is cautious opinion and not meant to be definitive.

WOW!!!

Satan definitely get's kicked out of heaven after the ascension.

The only thing I'm not sure of is if it was as soon as Christ got there or if it was after the 1260 days the woman was in the wilderness.

REV. Chapter 12 verse 5

and she brought forth a manchild, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron:

and her child was caught up unto God, and to His throne.

And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there 1260 days.

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon;

and the dragon fought and his angels, and prevailed not,

niether was thier place found anymore in heaven.

And the great dragon was castout, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world:

he was cast out into the earth,and his angels were castout with him.

[Hunterpoet]

First I don’t have an answer and can only speculate and will not be a guide. But maybe, some of you out there have a better understanding of the question and can help me on my journey. Also, even if you are not a Bible scholar, you are welcome and I would be interested in what you have to say. Where do theses passages lead us to?

The scriptural passages:

And he said to them, I saw Satan fall like lightening from ( Lk 10:18)

Now war arose in heaven. Michael and his angels fighting against the dragon…the great dragon was thrown down… he was thrown down to earth. (Rev12:7-9)

a) Now is it possible for evil to be cast out twice?

b) Is Christ showing His divinity – For God there is timeless and we humans don't fully grasp this concept.

c) Is Revelations as some contend a book of what was, is and will come?

d) Also consider when the Rev (12:7-9) says, that Michael will win due to the blood of the Lamb; however Christ when He speaks has not yet been crucified.

Yours,

Oak

This information is found in verse 11, not 7-9; And does not specifically mention Michael, but uses the term " They ".

It also follows a verse that speaks of salvation and the authority of Christ. In verse 11, it also mentions death, so again I think this means the verse is not about Michael or the angels, but refers to those who have accepted Christ and that some had lost their lives because of their faith( the martyrs ).

Luke10:18

I do not think this verse is related to rev.12:7-9. This I think is a mild rebuke. The returning 70 were overcome with joy and excitement, at having done these things. I think the Lord was telling them...this is nothing, be more happy that your names are written in Heaven(Luke10:19-20)

verse 7-9 is what I quoted from and it does name Michael and warfare with evil. The blood of the Lamb is indeed verse, 11 and that was a mistake. If you try to answer the question look at (Rev: 12:9) it begins "And the great dragon was thrown down... [to] earth. I checked two bibles (different versions) and both site Michael making war and evil being cast down to earth. You can hardly answer my question by ignoring everything but verse 11.

As to your next reply Christ didn't do things in a haphazard way and would not mention anything that wasn't true.

Oak

Maybe I do not understand what it is your asking.

What I said was the name Michael is not mentioned in verse 11.....I know full well you are quoting from verses 7-9; and I think verse 10 separates two distinct time periods.

Concerning Luke10:18, how did I give you the impression that the Lord was being haphazard? I do not recall suggesting that and this concerns me greatly, because even the newest of students early on learns or realizes that the Lord does nothing without purpose.

[nebula]

a) Now is it possible for evil to be cast out twice?

b) Is Christ showing His divinity

[oak]

First I don