PENTECOSTALISM

[Guest Called]

Yes, you can be saved even if you don't speak in tongues. 

Then I have no idea what AFJTL was talking about.

Steve, He was just trying to tell you about the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. It had nothing to do with speaking in tongues. He didn't even say anything about speaking in tongues. Read his post again.

[Scudbuddy]

Steve,

When I first started conversing with you, I complimented you for not insulting others. As time went though, I noticed that you "asked questions", but from reading your other post, it became impossible to reconcile someone so knowlegdeable being so ignorant to not know the anwsers to the very questions you were asking. Thus I find you disingenuous. And you have a pattern of asking a question only to set up the respondents. Bob and others saw before I did. I as I documented your many post noticed that others had already seen what I suspected.

So if you want a truce, be honest and upfront. I have already thoroughly documented that you are not looking into our beliefs in an attempt to find out whether or not you should take these beliefs on yourself. I pretty well established that you see us as an "adulterous and wicked generation" for our beliefs and expectations of signs and wonders.

You have still denied ignorance of what is obvious to anyone who has studied your extremely intelligent anwsers about Church history and theology.

So fess up and then we can deal not as adversaries, but brothers hashing out differences about belief systems. (I still do not understand why Cessationist are so obsessed with changing us. I have been on Cessationist sites, and I have yet to find Pentecostals harrassing them. And if I did, I'd rebuke them, and tell them to let you be. We are brothers period. Just that we Pentecostals are having a lot more fun on our way to heaven.)

So the truce starts when the truth starts. Sorry, but you haven't even come close to convince me that you are that stupid. You are one smart camper. Now are you an honest one?

[ann2]

This should be interesting

[WayneB]

Good enough, Bob.

Let's see here...

The name of my church is The Antelope Valley Church , in Lancaster, CA. (Northernmost point in Los Angeles County.)

We consider ourselves "born again", but we call ourselves simply "Christians", because that name naturally includes "born again". (I still don't understand why people make that distinction.)

Steve,

I went to what I think is your Church's web page. The Antelope Valley Church. As always with a Christian church or website, I look for a Statement of Faith so I know what the body believes in.

I realize that this thread was in regards to the work of the Holy Spirit but after I read the below quoted Statement of Faith, I am taken quite aback. No mention of Jesus Christ, Lord & Savior? You really believe that our life is God? Science of the Mind?

Friend, I don't want to derail your discussion here but I must ask? Who is Jesus Christ to you personally? You say that you are "born again" but into who? I can't find any reference to the King of Kings, the eternal One, the Ruler over ALL creation on the website? Maybe HE is not worthy to be on page one and is tucked somewhere neatly away?

I pray I have the wrong website. Please forgive me if I am mistaken.

Be Blessed,

Wayne

Declaration of Principles

What We Believe

We believe in God, the Living Spirit Almighty; one indestructible, absolute and self-existent Cause.

This One manifests Itself in and through all creation but is not absorbed by Its creation.

The manifest universe is the body of God; it is the logical and necessary outcome of the infinite self- knowingness of God.

We believe in the incarnation of the Spirit in all and that all people are incarnations of the One Spirit.

We believe in the eternality, the immortality and the continuity of the individual soul, forever and ever expanding.

We believe that the Kingdom of Heaven is within us and that we experience this Kingdom to the degree that we become conscious of it.

We believe the ultimate goal of life to be a complete emancipation from all discord of every nature, and that this goal is sure to be attained by all.

We believe in the unity of all life, and that the highest God and the innermost God is one God.

We believe that God is personal to all who feel this Indwelling Presence.

We believe in the direct revelation of Truth through our intuitive and spiritual nature, and that any person may become a revealer of Truth who lives in close contact with the Indwelling God.

We believe that the Universal Spirit, which is God, operates through a Universal Mind which is the Law of God; and that we are surrounded by this Creative Mind which receives the direct impress of our thoughts and acts upon it.

We believe in the healing of the sick through the power of this Mind.

We believe in the control of conditions through the power of this mind.

We believe in the eternal Goodness, the eternal Loving-kindness and the eternal Givingness of Life to all.

We believe in our own soul, our own spirit and our own destiny; for we understand that our life is God.

[stevehut]

I went to what I think is your Church's web page. The Antelope Valley Church.  As always with a Christian church or website, I look for a Statement of Faith so I know what the body believes in.

Your prayers have been answered, Wayne, thanks for asking. I just addressed this subject with someone else in a PM, so this is a good time to clear this up.

No, this is not my church, but I know who they are. My sister in-law is a perennial seeker, and has attended there on and off for years. These guys have several DBA's, and this is just one of them. I don't know much about them.

They are across town from our meeting place, and (ironically) on the same street. Anyway, this is our website:

www.avchurch.org

It is constantly under construction, as it is maintained by an all-volunteer staff with limited skills and resources. Last time I checked, it didn't have a lot of doctrinal info, but it should follow sometime soon.

[traveller]

Steve, when you first joined Worthy I asked you point blank if yu attended the International COC, and you said no. Now you say yes?

[stevehut]

Steve, when you first joined Worthy I asked you point blank if yu attended the International COC, and you said no. Now you say yes?

Are you keeping up to date on current events?

The ICC, as a corporate body, ceased to exist about a year and a half ago. A number of local congregations are trying to keep the dream alive, so to speak, but for now it is only a dream. Just wishful thinking.

The corporate office in LA no longer exists, and the website went dark some time ago. This is before I came along.

[traveller]

Steve, when you first joined Worthy I asked you point blank if yu attended the International COC, and you said no. Now you say yes?

Are you keeping up to date on current events?

The ICC, as a corporate body, ceased to exist about a year and a half ago. A number of local congregations are trying to keep the dream alive, so to speak, but for now it is only a dream. Just wishful thinking.

The corporate office in LA no longer exists, and the website went dark some time ago. This is before I came along.

As Andy would say to Barney, "You beat everything, you know that?"

[WayneB]

Your prayers have been answered, Wayne, thanks for asking.  I just addressed this subject with someone else in a PM, so this is a good time to clear this up.

No, this is not my church, but I know who they are.  My sister in-law is a perennial seeker, and has attended there on and off for years.  These guys have several DBA's, and this is just one of them.  I don't know much about them.

You think I was joking Steve but my heart was really heavy when I perused the website. I really did not ask to embarrass or hurt you but I was ready to snatch you out of the fire so to speak. Words cannot express how much I appreciate you as a brother in Christ...even if you are an ornery fella!

What is a "perennial believer"? Sounds new age? Maybe you need to witness to her and encourage her to attend more off than on?

Regardless, your response and explanation was gracious and kind. Thank you brother and please forgive my ignorance.

Be Blessed,

Wayne

[stevehut]

As Andy would say to Barney, "You beat everything, you know that?"

Ya, my wife tells me that too.

Now that you mention it, our son kinda looks like Opie.