Beyond God and atheism: Why I am a 'possibilian'

[nebula]

Beyond God and atheism: Why I am a 'possibilian'

* 27 September 2010 by David Eagleman

* Magazine issue 2779.

When it comes to the big questions, why should we have to either deny God or believe? Surely good science doesn't so restrict us, says David Eagleman

<snip>

This situation calls for an openness in approaching the big questions of our existence. When there is a lack of meaningful data to weigh in on a problem, good scientists are comfortable holding many possibilities at once, rather than committing to a particular story over others. In light of this, I have found myself surprised by the amount of certainty out there.

Take, for example, this decade's books by the new atheists, such as Richard Dawkins, Daniel Dennett, Sam Harris and Christopher Hitchens. Their books are brilliant and insightful, but sometimes feed a widespread misconception that scientists don't have the capacity to gambol around beyond the available data. Some readers walk away from these books with the impression that scientists think they have the big picture solved - if not in detail, at least in outline.

But good science is always open-minded, and the history of science is one of surprises and overturnings. Science is nothing but careful thinking, and careful thinking encourages an appreciation of the complexity of the world. The complexity encourages us to maintain several possibilities at once. In a single lifetime, we may have no way to remove the ambiguities from these possibilities.

A scientist may tend to favour one story over the others, but will always be careful to concede uncertainty and maintain a willingness to change the balance with new, incoming information. As an example, there are two very different interpretations about the reality underlying quantum physics. It is possible that there will be no way to ever know which is correct, or if instead some entirely new theory is correct. And that ambiguity is accepted as part of the enormity of the mysteries we face, and the terms of the agreement we have with nature.

So while there are plenty of good books by scientist-atheists, they sometimes under-emphasise the main lesson from science: that our knowledge is vastly outstripped by our ignorance. For me, a life in science prompts awe and exploration over dogmatism.

<snip>

Full article here

[nebula]

As a Christian, I can admit readily that I have something in my heart greater than my love and devotion to science that restricts my belief with regards to God.

Atheists however do not seem to claim any such acknowledgment. They claim their atheism and their science go hand in hand.

So I applaud this man in this regard - he is able to point out the hypocrisy of the scientific-atheists that they are not being true to science.

It is time the atheists take responsibility for their atheism to be a reason outside of science and stop using science as an excuse.

[Guest]

As a Christian, I can admit readily that I have something in my heart greater than my love and devotion to science that restricts my belief with regards to God.

Atheists however do not seem to claim any such acknowledgment. They claim their atheism and their science go hand in hand.

So I applaud this man in this regard - he is able to point out the hypocrisy of the scientific-atheists that they are not being true to science.

It is time the atheists take responsibility for their atheism to be a reason outside of science and stop using science as an excuse.

Ever Seeking

He said, "Go, and tell this people:

'Keep on listening, but do not perceive;

Keep on looking, but do not understand.'

"Render the hearts of this people insensitive,

Their ears dull,

And their eyes dim,

Otherwise they might see with their eyes,

Hear with their ears,

Understand with their hearts,

And return and be healed." Isaiah 6:9-10 (NASB)

But Never Seeing

But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised. 1 Corinthians 2:14

Such Was All The Children Of Adam

as it is written, "THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE; Romans 3:10

Until They Looked Up

Then the LORD said to Moses, "Make a fiery serpent, and set it on a standard; and it shall come about, that everyone who is bitten, when he looks at it, he will live."

And Moses made a bronze serpent and set it on the standard; and it came about, that if a serpent bit any man, when he looked to the bronze serpent, he lived. Numbers 21:8-9

And Believed

"As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up;

so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. John 3:14-15

[Botz]

Quote from the article Nebula put up.... For me, a life in science prompts awe and exploration over dogmatism.

I think many with a scientific interest/outlook on life believe they see the world through clearer lenses, and that those of us that are by nature of our new-birth 'bound' to certain dogma miss out on some of the things they behold....not least the wonders and complexities of nature, and the function/dynamics of the Universe.

I would contend that the converse is true, because when you are actually brought into a relationship with the One who created everything in the first place and set everthing in motion, any awe you express does not dissipate into the void, or is merely diseminated amongst those of a like mind....but rises up in worship and praise to G-d, and is therefore magnified way beyond what it is personally possible for a non-believer to experience.....even if they are the greatest scientist that ever lived.

I have never had a real scientific interest or approach to things, but I did at one time deisre to be a naturalist and work with Gerald Durrell because of my interest in animals and nature...which like many others was always a wonder and a pleasure to behold....However when I became awakened to G-d...it was as if someone had flicked a switch and I knew beyond anything I can properly explain, that He was the Creator, and everything I saw and loved was due to Him....It gave meaning to things I always appreciated, and which were no longer random and directionless, and I can honestly say, this form of worship to G-d is a daily occurence...possibly masses of times throughout each day.

[nebula]

Interesting perspective, Botz.

I've been walking with the Lord practically my whole life, so I don't have a "before" and "after" view of Creation - for me it appreciating the Creation and worship have always been hand-in-hand.

This gives me something to consider when speaking with non-Christians.

[Botz]

Interesting perspective, Botz.

I've been walking with the Lord practically my whole life, so I don't have a "before" and "after" view of Creation - for me it appreciating the Creation and worship have always been hand-in-hand.

This gives me something to consider when speaking with non-Christians.

I understand Neb.

I think for many of those like myself the contrast is immediate and profound because you suddenly see things from a soul that is now centred on G-d and a Spirit that has been made alive to the eternal destiny that stretches before one.

[~candice~]

I think that through science you can see different wonders, and through connecting with God you can see different wonders, and through the same wonder you can see it profoundly different; both in awe. There are many ways to see the world, after spending over an hour talking to one of my friends, a third year math major, about infinity and some of the underlying concepts of math I can get a glimpse into seeing the world through the eyes of a mathematician. Each paradigm (not talking about just world views) sees what's around us in a new way that is at least slightly novel and thus profound.

I'd like to hear more about how you see that world through the eyes of a mathematician?

[Botz]

I think that through science you can see different wonders, and through connecting with God you can see different wonders, and through the same wonder you can see it profoundly different; both in awe. There are many ways to see the world, after spending over an hour talking to one of my friends, a third year math major, about infinity and some of the underlying concepts of math I can get a glimpse into seeing the world through the eyes of a mathematician. Each paradigm (not talking about just world views) sees what's around us in a new way that is at least slightly novel and thus profound.

I was trying to demonstrate the contrast between being awed by something and accumulating knowledge and information that might be beautifully intricate and open up profound new vistas, and actually being infused with a knowledge and personal understanding of some of the intent behind the creative genius of the actual Designer Himself. Knowledge for knowledges sake has its own reward, and each individual has a certain capacity for a variety of information facts and figures that stimulates whatever makes them tick...to a greater or lesser degree.

I make the distinction by likening it to people who go around an art gallery and pass comment and suggestions as to why the artist painted what they see before them, but these are only opinions and pontifications....some art critics go beyond suggesting what was in the mind of the artist, and present as facts their own evaluations.

However this all changes if the artist himself walks amongst the people and tells them why he applied the paint in such a way, or what the thinking was behind the images he has produced...The role of critic and observer has to take a back-seat, as the one who created the paintings demonstrates exactly why he applied the oil to the canvas and what he hoped to achieve.

Luke 24:13 13And behold, two of them were going that very day to a village named Emmaus, which was about seven miles from Jerusalem. 14And they were talking with each other about all these things which had taken place. 15While they were talking and discussing, Jesus Himself approached and began traveling with them. 16But their eyes were prevented from recognizing Him. 17And He said to them, What are these words that you are exchanging with one another as you are walking? And they stood still, looking sad. 18One of them, named Cleopas, answered and said to Him, Are You the only one visiting Jerusalem and unaware of the things which have happened here in these days? 19And He said to them, What things? And they said to Him, The things about Jesus the Nazarene, who was a prophet mighty in deed and word in the sight of God and all the people, 20and how the chief priests and our rulers delivered Him to the sentence of death, and crucified Him. 21But we were hoping that it was He who was going to redeem Israel. Indeed, besides all this, it is the third day since these things happened. 22But also some women among us amazed us. When they were at the tomb early in the morning, 23and did not find His body, they came, saying that they had also seen a vision of angels who said that He was alive. 24Some of those who were with us went to the tomb and found it just exactly as the women also had said; but Him they did not see. 25And He said to them, O foolish men and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken! 26Was it not necessary for the Christ to suffer these things and to enter into His glory? 27Then beginning with Moses and with all the prophets, He explained to them the things concerning Himself in all the Scriptures.

[nebula]

However this all changes if the artist himself walks amongst the people and tells them why he applied the paint in such a way, or what the thinking was behind the images he has produced...The role of critic and observer has to take a back-seat, as the one who created the paintings demonstrates exactly why he applied the oil to the canvas and what he hoped to achieve.

Actually, I think it would be akin to the critic not just meeting the artist, but actually becoming friends with the artist. Then his understanding of the painting is not just the intellectual knowledge presented by the artist, but his understanding comes from knowing the heart and soul of the artist in a way that only experience and intimacy can know.

[Fraught]

A Possibilian ? That's just nutty. It's possible the sun may set today LOL