Question for Spirit-filled Believers

[stevehut]

1- Paul was also an elder and appointed elders in each city.

2- It woud be a threat to the pastors authority, if the people actually recieved their true spiritual gifts, and began true ministry, and grew beyond the pastors power,

1- Are you sure about that? I don't think Paul would meet his own qualifications for that office:

Titus 1:6

An elder must be blameless, the husband of but one wife, a man whose children believe and are not open to the charge of being wild and disobedient.

2- I don't understand. A mature member is a threat to the pastor?

[shammah]

1Peter.5:1;

The elders which are amoung you I exhort, who am also an elder, a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed.

Yes the head of the body, which is Christ has be taken over by the pastors, who tend sheep and teach. The body has many members with the head Christ, then the Apostle,prophets, elders, pastors , teachers,gifts of wisdom, knowledge,miracles, healings, ect. Pastors were never ment to be in charge, this was done by the evil influence, and bondage of Catholicism, and still followed by almost every church, and such the true gifts and workings become a threat to the pastors authority! What you will get when a person with a true prophetic gift, or wisdom, or word of knowledge, will be something usually contradicting the pastors, who are either ignorant of the gifts, or want them under his control. The pastors must repent when a true word is brought forth, and allowed to become only their part of the body, instead of the head, so what pastor has done this? What pastor would yeild up the true head to Christ, and let all the people in on the ministering of the service, and judging what is presented, if it be of the Lord!

Does this sound strange? It should; the church has been neglecting the purpose of the church, except for small gatherings, for hundreds of years! But in these last days the true church and its giftings, and origional purpose will return; but more will be the displays of lying signs and wonders in the false church, and the prosperity of churches built on mammon!

Agape in Jesus;Shammah's husband.

[shammah]

Actually its Peter proclaiming to be the elder in this case; but one does not need a wife and child to be an elder, but it's better he is not married. If an elder has a wife and child, only he can have one wife, and the children must believe and be obediant. And as far as being blameless it must be see by those judging, a lifestle of holiness, not that he hadn't been a sinner at one time.

All the Apostles are the elders, I would be very surprised if twelve of the twentyfour elders seen in revelations aren't the twelve Apostles; beeing that even the foundations of the New Jerusalem are built on the names of them.

But I think you will see Paul replacing Matthias, the one who replaced Judas, since Paul represents the majority of the saved , who are gentiles.

Let me say that if people are in the church system, the things I've said are offensive to them, but I must tell the truth. There is some learning to be done in the system, and some pastors are good meaning people. But if you really want the true gifts, and go beyond their teaching into maturity, you need to get together with atleast one or two other people and seek out the deeper things, places the pastor can't go. We challenged a pastor with this truth and he took up the challenge, to lead His baptist congregation not only to maturity, but to take part in the service, and discover and use their gifts, as a true body should.

It was the first time I had ever seen or heard of a congregation operating as the biblical body of Christ, it was done in the evening services and the day service was traditional. An Assembly of God church had split up recently, and they had some already opperating in the gifts to a small degree. So the services started to be taken over by the Holy Spirit, in order, with the most beautiful gifts , teaching , and edification,people singing ,praising, and crying in the Spirit.

Well the board controlled this church, instead of Spiritually matured elders; they were offended. They told the pastor that this may be biblical, but it's not Baptist doctrine, and if it didn't stop, he was gone! The pastor knew this was the Lord, so he continued till the unspiritual men threw him out, and so is the way of the cross!

Agape;Shammah-2

[stevehut]

1- Actually its Peter proclaiming to be the elder in this case;

2- one does not need a wife and child to be an elder, but it's better he is not married.

3- All the Apostles are the elders

4- I would be very surprised if twelve of the twentyfour elders seen in revelations aren't the twelve Apostles;

5- But I think you will see Paul replacing Matthias

6- Let me say that if people are in the church system, the things I've said are offensive to them

1- Yup. You said Paul earlier.

2- I find it interesting that the only named elder in the NT was Peter, a married man...

3- Seems to me that the office of an apostle is unique and higher than that of an elder. (Not that they are mutually exclusive.)

4- Speculation, methinks. I'd imagine there were quite a few Christian elders appointed by this time.

5- When did Matthias quit?

6- Not offended at all, just a bit perplexed here. And what in the world is "the church system"?

[Guest KathyB]

Great article you might like!!!!

http://www.theofframp.org/Detox.html

[shammah]

Matthias, in a way was chosen by men, not like the origionals. Paul was chosen directly by Jesus as the rest, and said that he was also an apostle! Who would you give the elders seat to?

The church system is like the Mother of Harlets and all her daughters, that aren't Spirit filled but merchandise the kingdom for money and power! There is about two billion of them, and in them are some true believers, for the most part starving for some spiritual food!

Ezekiel 34, speak of how one day the Lord will deliver these and punish the pastor for not only not feeding the sheep, but eating them, fleacing them, and scattering them amongst the Hills. But the Lord Himself shall rescue them and deliver them.

[stevehut]

1- Matthias, in a way was chosen by men,

2- Who would you give the elders seat to?

3- The church system is like the Mother of Harlets

1- Nope. He was chosen by lot, which was a customary and accepted manner of discerning God's will.

2- Doesn't matter who I think it should be. Paul defines the qualifications quite clearly, in a manner that he would not qualify.

3- Which church is this?