Should Churches speak to poltical issues of the da

[Scudbuddy]

Amor,

One other thing. I know a man who is so rich, he owns 7 yachts. What would be your advice to him? He considers himself a Christian. Is he evil?

If your friend can get a camel throgh this

he should be OK, if not he may have problems. Perhaps you should ask your friends why he needs seven yachts and suggest that he my find a way uf unburdening himself , by converting them into resources that might be of some benefit to those with real material needs

Did I forget to mention that every one of those yachts are used by my friend to distribute food and preach the gospel? That he sleeps on the floor because he gives away every mattress given to him? That God restored his wealth after he had given it all away.

He is one of those "evil" rich people you were talking about. I know more rich people like that. Do you want to hear about them also. In our country being rich doesn't mean you are evil, stingy or proud. It just means you grew up in a country that has the freedom to make a way for yourself if you work hard. You can do that in a Socialist country and expect alot of your money to be collected by the government to pay for your healthcare. I'd rather work hard and pay for my own healthcare at my own system with my own doctors and actually get to see them when I need to, and still have money in the bank to do with it according to the will of my Father. And not my Big Brother. And in this country, if you are too poor to pay for healthcare, the state demands that you are still able to get treatment. Doctors at our clinics hand out medicine given to them by those evil pharmaceutical companies free all the time here. And all of that without paying taxes of Socialist proportions.

By the way name a verse where God says something positive about taxes. He tells us to pay them, but He never says anything nice about taxes. Only negative things. Governments waste other peoples money. They do not care about how they spend our money. They only care that you give it to them. That is why the Private prisons are run more efficently in our country. The State and Federal prisons import their prisoners to them because it is actually cheaper to send them there than store them themselves.

And guess what? The prisoners want to go there. Though it is run cheaper, they eat better, and are safer. They are not as crowded either. This is because a private owner cares about what happens to his money. He will spend wisely. Not the government though.

I don't know which country you are from, but I have talked to so many of the European citizens, and the Canadiens. I have also read the reports and seen the documentaries. We had a Norwegian exchange student in our home. She explained it real well. "If you go to a state doctor, you are in trouble. Real trouble." In fact my friend who is a nurse just told me of her boy who is on a scholarship in England. He is covered by their "vaunted healthcare system." He got sick, and after waiting for along time to see the doctor, his condition worsened. When he finally could get into the clinic, they sent him home without any medicine to get some rest. She overnighted him some antibiotics that saved his life. He had walking pnemonia. Her medicine arrived from the states several days before their medicine. He would have died waiting for their medicine. But at least his death was paid for!

[sachi]

SCUDBUDDY:

There is a lot you say there that is truly absorbing . And I love the true American passion , I do.

Living in Canada myself, however, I would have to qualify some of the assumptions made - but they are immaterial to me at this point.

But let me ask you this:

Should the church be the place where ministers and/ or other leaders promote a style of government be it socialistic, capitilistic, Republican, Democratic, Conseravtive, Liberal.?]

Where does the Church draw the line - or does it . . ?

Is this part of the Great Commission to "go out into all the world and make desicples of all men ...?"

Sometimes I wonder if we aren't smudging the message with politics . . .

Blessings -Sachi

Edited September 11, 2004 by sachi

[Scudbuddy]

Sachi,

I honestly believe that God put His mark on the way we set up the system. This country unlike any in history, because of the way we have tried to honor God and express His thoughts in our decisions, have made a tremendous difference in what is happening in the rest of the world.

1.We have from the beginning stated Christianity as thee underlining system of thought behind every law and our bill of rights. Contrary to popular opinion, our forefathers put much prayer, and scriptural guidance into every line of our Constitution, Declaration of Independence and the Bill of Rights. They were wise in not inundating these documents with Christian jargon, but if you have read the bios of these great men, you cannot get away from the fact that the Word and the Spirit of the Living God influenced every thought put into these documents.

2.Our freedoms have attracted the best of the whole world to our shores. Why? Because these immigrants knew that whatever they had to contribute to mankind, would not be rewarded in their own land. They flocked to America to experience the incredible blessings of a country that from minute one decided to honor God.

3. We have always been in the forefront of sending aid, missionaries, doctors, and anyother help we could to those in need without being forced to by our government. We the people do this.

4.Israel exist because of the efforts of our country more than any other. The world has forsaken it many times, but we have stuck by Gods people everytime. "I will bless those that bless thee, and curse those that curse thee."

5.God hates taxes, laziness, tyranny and all other forms of oppression. The world whether they like it or not recognizes that our country above all others is thee most free from all of those things. God rewards countries that live by charity, hard work, honesty, and generosity. With all our faults, we as a country have made those things a priority in our lives. We have not been perfect, but we have tried hard to abide by those things.

[sachi]

SCUDBUDDY:

No point highlighting what you said in your last post - I TOTALLY

concur with most of what you said.

The US is founded on Judeo Christian values and they have been imbedded in the institutional infra structure of your nation -

It is this nation of the US that in the last century has been in the fore front in the Great Commission , sending out thousands upon thousands of missionaries to foreign fields .

And it is your country (besides England - don't forget England) what has stood beside Israel.

And he who blesses Israel, God blesses.

Totally on, brother.! I couldn't agree with you more.

But please do not minimize or neglect the awesome missionary thrust of the European countries, particularly England in the late 19th and early 20th century - Hudson Taylor and others - to Africa, China, India . . .

(In spite of my own country's liberal stance on many issues and luke warmness towards some American policies in the last years, this country Canada is also build on Judeo Christian foundation and has made a significan tcontribution to missionary outreach particulalry at the turn of the century.)

As a Christian I have been involved in various groups and forums that openly support Christian values in the current context and issues of our day.

However I am very resistant to the idea of the church becoming a forum for political views.

That does not mean we should not be politcially active. But I think permitting politics in the church contaminates the witness of the church. for one thing. It deflects the message.

And it opens pandoras box - it can back fire.

Sachi

Edited September 11, 2004 by sachi

[Scudbuddy]

What has backfired is our lives. The nations see our system is founded on godly principles. But they are not seeing our lives reflecting the same. The unsaved world is looking for an encounter with God. That encounter should be coming from the Church in every area of our lives. From the media to the mayoral office; from the library to the oval office; from the church to the university, Christians should be giving the world an encounter with the Living God that they cannot escape.

Men like Steve Hut who do not believe in the gifts have every reason not to. We the church in America have for the most part been powerless because we have swallowed lie after lie about our role in this world. We seperate our Church from every function when we should infiltrate the Kingdom of God into every function of our lives. The Devil should never feel comfortable anywhere. Bars shouldn't be his haven. Red-light districts should be no refuge. And the governments of this world should not be part of his domain either.

Kingdom of the Living God right now be revealed to all that read this post. Let them get a vision of Your Reality. Your Vision. Your Opportunity to be displayed before all. Let the Kingdoms of this world kneel before the Kingdom of our God.