Jews are allowed, Gentiles not required.

[Kabowd]

Oh I never said I disagree with him/her. I said I find it odd that they seem to have a set agenda or a message to "teach", rather than being interested in an actual discussion.

[shammah]

I don't know how to highlight the statements of others on this board, that is a technical issue, but I'm constantly answering their questions, and statements .

The Olive tree and the fig tree are used as types of Israel; the fig tree was cursed because it didn't bring forth fruit, and it was used to signify the return of Israel, and thus Christs return. But the olive tree also represented the Lords people, both Jew and Gentile in Romans 11, where natural Israel, became Spiritual Israel, under the new covenant. They are the children of the promise, both Jew as in the circumised as under Moses and the law, and the Gentile as uncircumcised in Abraham and by faith and the promise. Zech.4:2,12,14and Rev.11:3,4; speaks of the two anointed ones of God as olive branches also, and the Lord in the midst of them!These are also the two witnesses in revelations but now the olive branches and lampstand are one, in that the Lord is in His people. The olive oil represents the anointing of God and thus as the branch is as one person,and the tree represents the people of God! The word Israel means (he will rule as God) directly pointing to the people of God , that we will rule and reign with Him as kings and priests!

As far as a Hebrew line ending, this doesn't make sense! Because it says that in effect Levi paid tithes to Melchizedek, in that he was in the loins of Abraham.

Jesus rebuked the pharises who represented the Levitical line, one that was corrupted and about to be replaced by a better priesthood, a Godly one. Those who will rule and reign with God as priest and Kings, and is by definition (Israel),but a Spiritual Israel of God. Some people dont like the word Israel, but the meaning (to rule and reign as the spiritual parts of Christs body) is what this word means! Gods inheritance is not so much bloodlines and real estate, but now the Israel of God simply means the ruling spiritual Family of God! I use the Israel of God because gentiles have been grafted into the ruling spiritual body, which came by promises, laws, and a nation, but they were just a shadow, of Christ in us the hope of Glory! It's the ruling class that Jesus said He was going to replace, by the Melchizedek priesthood, but just because the rulers and the majority rejected Christ, the olive tree is still Israel, and the Jews that did believe were the natural olive branches!

Christ didn't take all the Apostles and all the thousands of Jews that believed and give them over to some gentile nation! Spiritual Israel is His People, it is that nation. The Lord said in Hebrews 8:10-14, that He will make a new covenant with the( house of Israel), I will put my laws into their minds and write them upon their hearts; so we can either try to devide the gentiles into some other covenant, or believe the gentiles have been adopted, or grafted into the new covenant promise; thus becoming one with the (house of Israel). We have not replaced Israel and Her promises, but have been allowed to be adopted into the heritage of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob,through Christs blood, he has broken down the wall between Jew and gentile, and the two have become one! But Christ and the natural branches aren't becoming one into the spiritual heritage of heathens, but gentiles are being grafted into the promises of Abraham, and his sons, from Issac to Jesus.

As Christ is the High Priest after the order of Melchizedek, His spiritual Kingdom has kings and priests that will reign with Him also in the order of Melchezidek. The Lord uses words that picture His purposes; Victory to the Israel of God, Abrahams seed, and Yah Shua's bride, and His inheritance!

Christ, a Jew, an Israelite, and those whom he chose as His disciples where not ashamed of the (Israel of God- His heritage) which are the faithful,but it was only the leaders that where a shame, and they turned the peoples hearts away. There is much advantage being a Jew that they were entrusted with the very words of God, and now the spirit was sent through Christ, to write spiritual laws on mens hearts,and include the gentile into that family, as spoken of by the prophets.

Lets not pick at each word, if you dont like the (Israel of God) you can use the (family of God),or(the kingdom of God),but let me prefer using (Israel of God) because it aptly discribes His heritage, of His people, who have become a family, Jew and Gentile in the Spirit are one; and the Lord has blessed us with this revelation knowledge!

Agape in Yah Shua; Shammah-2

[shammah]

We are discussing differant teaching! In that discussion we reason together, and where to or three are gather together in His name, the Lord is in their midst!

Many if not most of us here are set on most of our teaching, with the Lord in our midst, his word, and with wisdom judging, and discerning, perhaps the Lord can do a further revealing in our hearts!

Whether many think my interpretation is wrong or some other, let us reason together, let the Lord do a work! Most of us brought up in this church age where the word is sold for gain,they haven't had the oportunity to discover spiritual gifts, and recieve direct revelation, but have had it sold to them by men who preach for money, and not for your maturity.

If you want the truth of the word you must discover it through the spirit by yourself, and though those honestly seeking it with you! Honestly I've recieved so little spiritual meat from churches, and it's so weak, that I prefer to sharpen swords of truth with others who also desire to find the deeper spiritual truths, and mysteries.

I'm finding that those who know of the Jewish heritage of our Lord, are able to understand the mysteries better, and have more discernment; while the gentile church people will fall for anything, generaly speaking.

Lets keep up the dialog, and resist being offended, even if it offends those denominational traditions! Love and blessings; Shammah-2.

[shammah]

Shalom to you all,

There have been so many people who have been misled by the teachings of the gentile christian churches, and so to seek for the truth is to seek God. He is truth, and we must be allowed to discuss these issues in the spirit of meekness.

We have only one agenda, and that is to seek God. He is our all in all, and there is no other, but Him.

This is why we discuss issues with brethren, for iron, sharpens iron, and we humbly come here with open hearts, seeking truth with an open discussion.

I was at work one day, just praising the Lord, and singing to Him, and saying, Oh Lord, I wish I was Jewish, and He replyied, "That is of the flesh, that is not My inheritance, you are My inheritance".

Well, after hearing that, I perked up, and this was a point in my life where I wanted to know more about the differences between the natural Jew, and the spiritual. So, I searched the scriptures, and found many of them, one saying that they are not all Israel, that are of Israel, and so I searched even further, and found that Israel, the spiritual Israel, is the Israel of God, and we are the spiritual Jews of that spiritual Israel.

Many Messianic Jews are coming to know this, and there are still those who hold to the traditions of men, the old Israel, and so because of this, there has been formed a chism in the body of Christ that should not be.

I just pray for those who do not see, that they would receive sight, and their hearts would be softened, to receive His deeper truths.

I am not worthy of such a calling as this, to be called a son of God, but never the less, He has given me life, through the Son, Yah Shua, the Messiah, and He has covered my sins with His precious blood.

I pray that all here will be filled with God's Love, and meekness, and humility before our precious Father, the True, and Living God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, (Israel).

Shalom, and Love to you all in Yah Shua, shammah

[Jedi4Yahweh]

Shalom

[shammah]

The only replacement theology is that, the old covenant which was fading, temperal, carnal, and imperfect, had been replaced with the new ,perfect, ever-lasting, covenant, which focuses on spiritual truths over the natural! It was brought forth by Christs one sacrifice, and blood atonement, which fulfils the majority of what the laws and what the prophets spoke of.

I like to bring out that the gentlie can learn and participate in the wonderful heritage of Christ and the Israel He loved, from the first Adam to the last Adam; the Jews heritage has become ours to reciece, if we are willing to discover the beautiful depth thereof.

Only the covenant has become better, so that the Israel of God is open to all, for His eternal Glory! Amen; Shammah-2.

[papasangel]

"Breaks out the first aid kit" ok lets keep it bloodless shall we? I don't want to bw wiping up anything messy here folks.

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings Shammah, et al,

When you are able to determine the DEFINITION of "the Kingdom of God", you will have your answer. I have given it to you but you are not listening. Israel IS NOT the Kingdom of God, either natural OR spiritual.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[shammah]

The Kingdom of God is within you, in the Spirit at this time. If the Olive tree is Israel as shwon in Romans and other places, as well as the olive branches represent the anointed ones of God in Zec.,and Rev. Even if you can find it in a parable or two as a fig, Israel is also the Olive tree , and you are one of those wild gentile branches. The gentiles were once heathens and considered dogs, but now by faith they can share the heritage of the people of God! The physical Israel and its heritage which was flesh, now has become the kingdom of god, in the Spirit; but has not lost it's heritage though the preisthood is now changed! Those of the Livitical Prisethood and their followers, those branches were broke off because of unbelief, but many of the natural branches were kept in the tree as evidence of the work of the Holy Spirit through the Apostles! So there is no way you can replace Israel with a gentile church, you replace, physical Israel with an old covenant, with Spiritual Israel, where Gentiles are grafted in with that everlasting covenant .You find many times in the scriptures Israel is promised an everlasting covenant, it just so happened the gentiles were included in the one God was referring to,look it up.

The Spiritual person can see the change from the natural country and people, and its covenant, to the greater which is also ROOTED in Christ's own people and old testiment prophecies and types, but the carnal gentile or Jew will never percieve.

I love you, but go on with your thinking, I use to believe that myself, but I'm not going back, and so lets have resolution with that,and let some go on,its not big enough to pick at anymore!

I Agape love you all; maybe a time for a new topic! But you see here sometimes we need to get a little irritated to search out the scriptures with passion! Lets never think we know so much that we can search , pray about it, and even allow closier, if all dont see the same way!

The real Issue here seems to be whether the Lord wants His Family to be called Israel in the Spirit, or just the Kingdom of God? I'm sure He has many names, the one I'm hoping for is (Bride), and His special name He gives to each of these!!!!

Victory to His chosen People; Blessings to all; Shammah-2.

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings Shammah,

I disagree with you that using the term "spiritual Israel" and applying it to ANY gentile BELIEVER. The Jews whether natural OR spiritual remain Jews. Whether they be assimilated to their homeland or in the Diaspora, whether mixed with other races or not, as long as they have one drop of Jewish blood, they remain Jewish and their forefather is Jacob.

I know there is great debate over the following verses, but they clearly indicate that there are those who claim "Jewishness' and are LIARS:

Revelation 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

Revelation 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

The Jews have always (since Jacob) been a special people, a chosen people, set for us as an example throughout ALL of history. Even today they are an example to us, but as those that are "worldly", and NOT Godly. They are enemies of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. How many Jews do you know that are Republican or conservative? They are few and far between. Of the total population of the Jews today in the world, which is about 15.4 - 16 million, less than 1% are Christian - a remnant of the TRUE Jew - the NATURAL branches of the Olive Tree.

Today, as I have never seen before, there are MANY GENTILES who call themselves "spiritual Jews". It doesn't matter that they have not a drop of blood of Jacob, they believe they inherited the promises of Jacob. If that were the case, then their salvation would come at the END during great tribulation, scattered among the nations of the world. But God is calling to the GENTILES right now, and when their days have reached the "fulness", THEN the "natural Jews" will have their heart changed to hear AND ACCEPT the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

I can SEE that you do not wish to define scripturally "the Kingdom of God", but you wish to remain blinded by your own agenda. Let me reiterate for your sake and others: The Kingdom of God is defined as "The presence of God, or the manifestation of God whether it be in a particular locale or in an individual." This is why Jesus could say "the Kingdom of God has come among you" or "the Kingdom of God is IN you." And it is this VERY SAME Kingdom of God that was TAKEN from the Jews and given to the "nations" or "gentiles". THIS IS WHY the Olive Tree represents the Kingdom of God and NOT Israel. Israel REMAINS the "fig tree" as noted in Mt. 24. Only God's PRESENCE (the Kingdom of God) was TAKEN FROM THEM.

How much more clear can that be?

BTW, PLEASE, break up your LONG paragraphs into smaller more intelligible paragraphs.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie