Two Questions For Unbelievers

[Fez]

Shiloh357, I'm sure we could match each other, post for post, until one of us dies, but really, I would prefer that you stop right now. I am not prepared to return your insults and you seem to have nothing but insults to offer, so there's really no point in continuing is there? Thanking you in advance for your kind consideration,

@ Other members of this forum:

Do you agree with shiloh357's description of me or do you think he is being a little unfair? I care not what the answer may be; I'm just trying to figure out how this forum works. Do the majority of the members adhere to the idea that we should do unto others as we would have them do unto ourselves, or is that principle left at the door when entering this forum? I look forward to your replies.

Bob, Shiloh is doing nothing but basing his replies to you on direct scripture. It might be hard to get your head around, but in agreeing with him as regards unbelief, I still love. If that sounds like a contradiction, in scriptural terms it is not. He is telling you what the Bible says about unbelief, and knowing him, he does not condemn nor does he judge, he is just telling you as it is.

There is only one judge, and Shiloh is telling you that God will judge you according to the Word, and Shiloh's answer to you is from the Word.

Blessings

[Guest Bob Down]

You are like an overweight patient who is more offended that the doctor told him he needs to lose weight than he is afraid of what his weight is doing to his health and well-being. You are more offended that someone had the termity to confront you about your sin than you are about the fact that your sin is costing you your eternal future.

I'm not even slightly offended - just surprised by the way you speak to people, that's all.

What you fail to understand because you are too busy being offended...

Again, not even slightly offended - bemused perhaps, but not offended.

...I am not speaking of personalities, but of the spritiual condition of people without God.

I think you were speaking of personalities and now you are back-pedalling (hope that doesn't sound too harsh, it's not meant to.)

...The nicest person in the world ... how "good" they are ...

So you agree with me that people are nice and they can be good. I'm pleased to hear that.

You won't find any Christian on this board that will claim that they have anything good in them apart from the Lord has put there.

86,091 members and you speak for all of them?

shiloh357, on 26 December 2010 - 01:32 AM, said:

It your think-skinned responses that are some of the best examples of why the Bible can be shown to be of divine origin.

Calling me thin-skinned is a clear case of projection on your part. Your posts on this thread have me surprised, bemused, and sometimes amused, but that is as far as it goes. As anybody reading this thread can see, I am not being thin-skinned, I am simply calling you to task for behaving rudely. In polite society that is an acceptable response.

[Guest shiloh357]

shiloh357, on 26 December 2010 - 06:58 AM, said:

You are like an overweight patient who is more offended that the doctor told him he needs to lose weight than he is afraid of what his weight is doing to his health and well-being. You are more offended that someone had the termity to confront you about your sin than you are about the fact that your sin is costing you your eternal future.

I'm not even slightly offended - just surprised by the way you speak to people, that's all.

Yes are/were. Don't even try to back-peddle on that one. Your responses demonstrated a clear feeling of offense at what I said to the point that you wanted to ignore me.

shiloh357, on 26 December 2010 - 06:58 AM, said:

...I am not speaking of personalities, but of the spritiual condition of people without God.

I think you were speaking of personalities and now you are back-pedalling (hope that doesn't sound too harsh, it's not meant to.)

Wrong. ALL of my responses have been couched as how you appear to God, not as a judgment of any personality. I was very careful to make it clear that I was speaking in spiritual terms as to how you stand before God. To say otherwise is dishonest.

shiloh357, on 26 December 2010 - 06:58 AM, said:

You won't find any Christian on this board that will claim that they have anything good in them apart from the Lord has put there.

86,091 members and you speak for all of them?

Not all of those members are Christians and most are not even active and have not been active for years. Of the genuine followers of Christ, you will not find ONE who claims that he or she is has anything truly good in them apart from Christ. Our true value/worth is found in Christ.

I am simply calling you to task for behaving rudely.

I am not being rude at all. You are simply not unable or unwilling to make the distinction between what the Bible says about your spiritual condition and a personal attack.

[Guest Bob Down]

Bob, Shiloh is doing nothing but basing his replies to you on direct scripture. It might be hard to get your head around, but in agreeing with him as regards unbelief, I still love. If that sounds like a contradiction, in scriptural terms it is not. He is telling you what the Bible says about unbelief, and knowing him, he does not condemn nor does he judge, he is just telling you as it is.

Let's take a step back and consider what actually happened: It was pointed out that in Psalm 53 the author wrote, The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. and I pointed to Matthew 5:22 where it is implied that anyone who says "You fool" is in danger of hell fire. I wondered also, about the fate of the Psalmist who seemed (in my opinion) to have put himself in harm's way.

What I expected was a an invigorating discussion as we attempted to tease out the truth from these texts - but this is what I got:

...you are corrupt because of what you are not because of what you do. Everything you do in the context of being an unbeliever is inquity before God. You are incabable of pleasing God. Your best deeds on your best day are as filthy menstrual rags before God. You are born a sinner and you have a sentence of death hanging over your head. You are born separated from God and at enmity with Him. You are under the curse of His law and are going headlong down a path to eternal destruction unless you repent and receive Jesus as your Savior.

Not even the slightest attempt to address my post - just flat-out invective - and since then I have been accused of being thin-skinned and easily offended !

So shall we discuss Psalm 53 and Matthew 5:22, or shall the insults continue? I prefer the former.

Edited December 26, 2010 by Bob Down

[Guest shiloh357]

Bob, Shiloh is doing nothing but basing his replies to you on direct scripture. It might be hard to get your head around, but in agreeing with him as regards unbelief, I still love. If that sounds like a contradiction, in scriptural terms it is not. He is telling you what the Bible says about unbelief, and knowing him, he does not condemn nor does he judge, he is just telling you as it is.

Let's take a step back and consider what actually happened: It was pointed out that in Psalm 53 the author wrote, The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. and I pointed to Matthew 5:22 where it is implied that anyone who says "You fool" is in danger of hell fire. I wondered also, about the fate of the Psalmist who seemed (in my opinion) to have put himself in harm's way.

What I expected was a an invigorating discussion as we attempted to tease out the truth from these texts - but this is what I got:

...you are corrupt because of what you are not because of what you do. Everything you do in the context of being an unbeliever is inquity before God. You are incabable of pleasing God. Your best deeds on your best day are as filthy menstrual rags before God. You are born a sinner and you have a sentence of death hanging over your head. You are born separated from God and at enmity with Him. You are under the curse of His law and are going headlong down a path to eternal destruction unless you repent and receive Jesus as your Savior.

Not even the slightest attempt to address my post - just flat-out invective -

That is not true. Here are the portions you conveniently avoided pasting from my initial resoponse to you (which you could not have missed)

First of all, the NT passage you cited is referring to a type of slander. It is not slander for the Psalmist to call an unbeliever a fool.

(snip)

That is the condition you are in. God loves you enough that He sent His Son to Jesus take upon Himself the penalties of your sin and to provide you with the free gift of eternal life. It is yours for the taking. If you choose continued separation from God, you will face the consequences for that choice.

The first sentence answered the question about Psalm 53 and Matt. 5:22. The remaining portion speaks to the context and that I was not insulting you, but speaking of your spiritual condition as a sinner in the presence of a holy God. Nice try at misrepresenting me, but it won't fly.

[Fez]

Bob, why would you even want to discuss scripture when you are a stated unbeliever (does that mean atheist, or are you just seeking something else?).

What is your desire behind the need to discuss scripture?

[Guest Bob Down]

Bob, why would you even want to discuss scripture when you are a stated unbeliever (does that mean atheist, or are you just seeking something else?).

What is your desire behind the need to discuss scripture?

I have never had faith in god and it intrigues me that others do have that faith. I find it an interesting point of difference and enjoy talking about it.

I got interested in bible studies when I first heard about the work done in the realm of "higher criticism" by scholars were able to analyse source documents and discover who wrote the text, when they wrote it and where they wrote it. I am absolutely fascinated to think that today, thousands of years later, we can still learn such things through sheer hard work and diligent study. It's like a great detective story and it has kept me on the edge of my seat for decades.

Of course, as you probably know, in some areas (eg; the synoptic gospels) higher criticism contradicts church tradition - but even there, we have room to manouvre because some sects accept the findings of higher critics while other sects do not. The truth is still out there, waiting to be found - and it pleases me to take an interest in that search.

Thanks for asking.

Edited December 26, 2010 by Bob Down

[Fez]

Bob, why would you even want to discuss scripture when you are a stated unbeliever (does that mean atheist, or are you just seeking something else?).

What is your desire behind the need to discuss scripture?

I have never had faith in god and it intrigues me that others do have that faith. I find it an interesting point of difference and enjoy talking about it.

I got interested in bible studies when I first heard about the work done in the realm of "higher criticism" by scholars were able to analyse source documents and discover who wrote the text, when they wrote it and where they wrote it. I am absolutely fascinated to think that today, thousands of years later, we can still learn such things through sheer hard work and diligent study. It's like a great detective story and it has kept me on the edge of my seat for decades.

Of course, as you probably know, in some areas (eg; the synoptic gospels) higher criticism contradicts church tradition - but even there, we have room to manouvre because some sects accept the findings of higher critics while other sects do not. The truth is still out there, waiting to be found - and it pleases me to take an interest in that search.

Thanks for asking.

Ok thank you. Just to let you know where I stand. The Bible is the living, God breathed Word, and is the only truth. I approach the word through total faith, a faith strengthened by baptism in the Holy Spirit and total surrender to Jesus as my King.

Oh, and also, far from being perfect......I am a sinner who is striving not to be. (an impossible task I guess)

[Guest shiloh357]

I got interested in bible studies when I first heard about the work done in the realm of "higher criticism" by scholars were able to analyse source documents and discover who wrote the text, when they wrote it and where they wrote it.

Source criticism is highly subjective and is based the notion that the authors are anonymous, hence the references to JEDP and Q.

Source criticism is far from being objective and ignores the plain statements of the text which date themselves and give plenty of internal evidence as to their audience and authorship. Higher Crticism simply tries to do end run around the divine origin of Scripture. If the Bible is product of anonymous human authors, it removes accountability for sin before a holy God. Thta is ultimately the motivation behind attempting to read God out of the Scripture the way higher critics do. They turn interpretation on its head and the Bible suddenly becomes servant to the reader and instead of interpretation of Scripture, we are left with a view that makes the Bible a smorgasboard from which a person can pick and choose according to their taste.

[Guest]

Truth

And I say unto you,

Ask, and it shall be given you;

seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.

For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. Luke 11:9-10

>>>>>()<<<<<

Bob, why would you even want to discuss scripture when you are a stated unbeliever (does that mean atheist, or are you just seeking something else?).

What is your desire behind the need to discuss scripture?

I have never had faith in god and it intrigues me that others do have that faith. I find it an interesting point of difference and enjoy talking about it.

I got interested in bible studies when I first heard about the work done in the realm of "higher criticism" by scholars were able to analyse source documents and discover who wrote the text, when they wrote it and where they wrote it. I am absolutely fascinated to think that today, thousands of years later, we can still learn such things through sheer hard work and diligent study. It's like a great detective story and it has kept me on the edge of my seat for decades.

Of course, as you probably know, in some areas (eg; the synoptic gospels) higher criticism contradicts church tradition - but even there, we have room to maneuver because some sects accept the findings of higher critics while other sects do not. The truth is still out there, waiting to be found - and it pleases me to take an interest in that search.

Thanks for asking.

Talking About Truth

And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:

For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. Matthew 13:14-15

Will Never Take The Place Of The Truth

Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them. Hebrews 7:25

And Higher Criticism Is Just Evil Men Spitting On The Pure Word Of God

Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding? Isaiah 29:16

You See

Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth? Luke 18:8(b)

No?

But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. 2 Corinthians 4:3-4

>>>>>()<<<<<

Believe

Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: John 11:25

And Be Blessed Beloved

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. John 3:36

Love, Joe

>>>>>()<<<<<

God Speaks!

Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. 2 Peter 1:20-21

But Will A Man Hear?

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. 2 Timothy 3:16-17