Guest Butero Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 as i see it the old testament tithe system was set up to help teach the people to put god first and trust him to provide. also for most of israel history it didnt have a central government and the money that the people gave helped in that aspect-to help provide for the people that worked in the temple ect ect. in the new testament god says that he loves a cheerful giver and that god does not want people to give out of legalism. its way to easy to get caught up in legalism without one even knowing it but a christian should not judge another fellow christian rather they give 10% or not, it is a personal matter between them and god, not between a person and the "church" Let me ask you something. How many times does the word legalism come up in the Bible? From the way the word is thrown around today, it would seem like it must be on every page in scripture? What verse tells us not to give out of legalism? By the way, don't read too much into my questions. I am not trying to be short with you. I just don't buy into all this anti-legalsim nonsense being preached in the modern day church. I don't think I have come across you before at WB. Nice to meet you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anitarose Posted January 8, 2011 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 65 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,066 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 26 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/15/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/02/1961 Author Share Posted January 8, 2011 So do you think we can earn from G-d if we tithe? I dunno *shrugs*....He does say to test Him...I think I would test Him and see if what He says is true. What exactly does He say? Read Malachi 3 and find out for yourself there, friend.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j102 Posted January 8, 2011 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 16 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 443 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 24 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/08/2010 Status: Offline Share Posted January 8, 2011 as i see it the old testament tithe system was set up to help teach the people to put god first and trust him to provide. also for most of israel history it didnt have a central government and the money that the people gave helped in that aspect-to help provide for the people that worked in the temple ect ect. in the new testament god says that he loves a cheerful giver and that god does not want people to give out of legalism. its way to easy to get caught up in legalism without one even knowing it but a christian should not judge another fellow christian rather they give 10% or not, it is a personal matter between them and god, not between a person and the "church" Let me ask you something. How many times does the word legalism come up in the Bible? From the way the word is thrown around today, it would seem like it must be on every page in scripture? What verse tells us not to give out of legalism? By the way, don't read too much into my questions. I am not trying to be short with you. I just don't buy into all this anti-legalism nonsense being preached in the modern day church. I don't think I have come across you before at WB. Nice to meet you. you are right in that the word legalism itself is not in the bible, same goes with the word rapture but the doctrines are there in scripture. basically legalism is the idea that one has to be perfect, do certain things to be right with god, do that and you will get more favor from god. legalism focuses on ones own good deeds and merit which are like filthy rags before god, rather than focus on the grace and mercy that was given to us at the cross. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Butero Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 as i see it the old testament tithe system was set up to help teach the people to put god first and trust him to provide. also for most of israel history it didnt have a central government and the money that the people gave helped in that aspect-to help provide for the people that worked in the temple ect ect. in the new testament god says that he loves a cheerful giver and that god does not want people to give out of legalism. its way to easy to get caught up in legalism without one even knowing it but a christian should not judge another fellow christian rather they give 10% or not, it is a personal matter between them and god, not between a person and the "church" Let me ask you something. How many times does the word legalism come up in the Bible? From the way the word is thrown around today, it would seem like it must be on every page in scripture? What verse tells us not to give out of legalism? By the way, don't read too much into my questions. I am not trying to be short with you. I just don't buy into all this anti-legalism nonsense being preached in the modern day church. I don't think I have come across you before at WB. Nice to meet you. you are right in that the word legalism itself is not in the bible, same goes with the word rapture but the doctrines are there in scripture. basically legalism is the idea that one has to be perfect, do certain things to be right with god, do that and you will get more favor from god. legalism focuses on ones own good deeds and merit which are like filthy rags before god, rather than focus on the grace and mercy that was given to us at the cross. You would be surprised how many people don't believe in the rapture of the church. To me, there are two ways to look at legalism. One is the idea that your salvation is based on how good you live, period. I don't believe that. The other way is to believe that because our righteousness is as filthy rags in the sight of God, nobody would be saved without grace, but we are still obligated to do our best, or we will be cut off and still wind up in hell. If you consider that legalism, I am legalistic and believe I am right to be so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j102 Posted January 9, 2011 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 16 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 443 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 24 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/08/2010 Status: Offline Share Posted January 9, 2011 as i see it the old testament tithe system was set up to help teach the people to put god first and trust him to provide. also for most of israel history it didnt have a central government and the money that the people gave helped in that aspect-to help provide for the people that worked in the temple ect ect. in the new testament god says that he loves a cheerful giver and that god does not want people to give out of legalism. its way to easy to get caught up in legalism without one even knowing it but a christian should not judge another fellow christian rather they give 10% or not, it is a personal matter between them and god, not between a person and the "church" Let me ask you something. How many times does the word legalism come up in the Bible? From the way the word is thrown around today, it would seem like it must be on every page in scripture? What verse tells us not to give out of legalism? By the way, don't read too much into my questions. I am not trying to be short with you. I just don't buy into all this anti-legalism nonsense being preached in the modern day church. I don't think I have come across you before at WB. Nice to meet you. you are right in that the word legalism itself is not in the bible, same goes with the word rapture but the doctrines are there in scripture. basically legalism is the idea that one has to be perfect, do certain things to be right with god, do that and you will get more favor from god. legalism focuses on ones own good deeds and merit which are like filthy rags before god, rather than focus on the grace and mercy that was given to us at the cross. You would be surprised how many people don't believe in the rapture of the church. To me, there are two ways to look at legalism. One is the idea that your salvation is based on how good you live, period. I don't believe that. The other way is to believe that because our righteousness is as filthy rags in the sight of God, nobody would be saved without grace, but we are still obligated to do our best, or we will be cut off and still wind up in hell. i agree that we are supposed to live righteous lives before god, but let me ask you a question, i think we would all agree that good deeds will never earn us salvation. then why do some act like they can loss their salvation by bad deeds? i mean god doesn't want us to be scared all the time trying to avoid from stepping on "spiritual eggshells" jesus said that we are in the palm of his hand and that no one can take us away from him. i know some will try to quote other verse trying to support their particular viewpoint. as i see it the ONLY way one can loss their salvation is to make a conscience choice to willfully turn their backs on god and tell jesus to get out of there life. If you consider that legalism, I am legalistic and believe I am right to be so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j102 Posted January 9, 2011 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 16 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 443 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 24 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/08/2010 Status: Offline Share Posted January 9, 2011 as i see it the old testament tithe system was set up to help teach the people to put god first and trust him to provide. also for most of israel history it didnt have a central government and the money that the people gave helped in that aspect-to help provide for the people that worked in the temple ect ect. in the new testament god says that he loves a cheerful giver and that god does not want people to give out of legalism. its way to easy to get caught up in legalism without one even knowing it but a christian should not judge another fellow christian rather they give 10% or not, it is a personal matter between them and god, not between a person and the "church" Let me ask you something. How many times does the word legalism come up in the Bible? From the way the word is thrown around today, it would seem like it must be on every page in scripture? What verse tells us not to give out of legalism? By the way, don't read too much into my questions. I am not trying to be short with you. I just don't buy into all this anti-legalism nonsense being preached in the modern day church. I don't think I have come across you before at WB. Nice to meet you. you are right in that the word legalism itself is not in the bible, same goes with the word rapture but the doctrines are there in scripture. basically legalism is the idea that one has to be perfect, do certain things to be right with god, do that and you will get more favor from god. legalism focuses on ones own good deeds and merit which are like filthy rags before god, rather than focus on the grace and mercy that was given to us at the cross. You would be surprised how many people don't believe in the rapture of the church. To me, there are two ways to look at legalism. One is the idea that your salvation is based on how good you live, period. I don't believe that. The other way is to believe that because our righteousness is as filthy rags in the sight of God, nobody would be saved without grace, but we are still obligated to do our best, or we will be cut off and still wind up in hell. If you consider that legalism, I am legalistic and believe I am right to be so. i agree that we are supposed to live righteous lives before god, but let me ask you a question, i think we would all agree that good deeds will never earn us salvation. then why do some act like they can loss their salvation by bad deeds? i mean god doesn't want us to be scared all the time trying to avoid from stepping on "spiritual eggshells" jesus said that we are in the palm of his hand and that no one can take us away from him. i know some will try to quote other verse trying to support their particular viewpoint. as i see it the ONLY way one can loss their salvation is to make a conscience choice to willfully turn their backs on god and tell jesus to get out of there life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Botz Posted January 10, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 76 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,492 Content Per Day: 0.61 Reputation: 191 Days Won: 18 Joined: 03/29/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted January 10, 2011 So do you think we can earn from G-d if we tithe? I dunno *shrugs*....He does say to test Him...I think I would test Him and see if what He says is true. What exactly does He say? Read Malachi 3 and find out for yourself there, friend.... Let me expand the question a little. Is tithing clearly taught under the New Covenant, and if so what is its purpose...does that purpose include getting a financial return on your investment? I am really serious in the study of this, but have not yet found sound explanations based on Scripture, that are not hauled out of context, liberally splattered with glaringly personal eisogesis and subjective revelation...and I have to wonder why the same tired old Scriptures are wheeled out again and again, as if they demonstrate once and for all G-ds definitive ruling on the subject...and yet those that do the same, demonstrate what appears to be a very shaky handling of Scripture and expect not only to be taken seriously, but considered worthy and competent Bible expositors. The sad thing is, many honour them as such. So in light of this I really would value a response that can help guide me through pertinent Scriptures, and perhaps open my eyes to something I am missing. Thanks brethren. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuftWaffle Posted January 10, 2011 Group: Senior Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 820 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 261 Days Won: 7 Joined: 01/09/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted January 10, 2011 (edited) Hi Everybody, I'm very strongly against teaching tithing as I believe that it a) is unbiblical b) tends to turn God's house into a house of merchandise c) places the yoke of the law around the necks of the liberated in Christ d) often works against the Holy Spirit Perhaps these may be strong terms, but allow me to expand the first issue. The term "tithing", I believe is a bait-and-switch, which means it's an expression that has multiple meanings and the meanings are subtly shifted to benefit a certain view point. If one distinguishes between biblical tithing and modern tithing one can clearly see the switch. Tithing as referenced by Matthew 23, Malachi 3 etc. are defined in Deut 14. It is defined as follows: a) The primary beneficiary of the tithes was the tither themselves. b) Tithes were eaten c) Tithes consisted of the increase of the land, not manufactured or trade goods. In other words carpenters didn't tithe. Potters didn't tithe. Only farmers who got their products from the land itself. Deut 14 specifically states money wasn't tithed but changed for agricultural products before being tithed. d) Secondary beneficiaries of the tithes are the poor, the widows and the levites for they had no land. e) The place where tithes were to be taken was the temple, nowhere else. f) The purpose of the tithe was a sort of thanksgiving feast, where tithers honoured God for His providence. g) This happened yearly h) It was only the Israelites who were meant to tithe. Compare this to Modern tithing as taught in churches today a) The primary beneficiary of tithes are the church. b) Tithes are paid c) Tithes are specifically monetary. d) The poor, the windows and the homeless are to tithe as well in contract to the Biblical 'tithe'. e) Tithes are taken to the local church f) The purpose of the tithe is for the running costs of the church primarily g) Tithes are paid weekly or monthly according to the tithers salary h) Gentile Christian under the new covenant are told to tithe. Nowhere in scripture has God commanded the modern tithing system or that the Bibilical tithe should change to the Modern tithing system as taught in many churches today. Verses such as Malachi 3 are instruction not to violate biblical tithes, and not instructions to tithe in the modern fashion. Mal 3:10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it. Even though the context is literal this particular verse is modernised and reinterpreted as follows: "storehouse" is seen as "church" "meat" is seen as "money" "windows of heaven" (meaning rain) is seen as "blessings" (often financial) The only similarity between Biblical tithing and what is often taught today is the name "tithing". It is a classic bait-and-switch using the verses that refer to Biblical tithing (such as Mal 3) to prompt congregations to tithe in the modern sense. Not only that but modern tithing violates proper tithing as defined in Deut 14, which means that those thinking they're abiding by the Law by tithing are actually placing themselves within the very curse of the Law that they believe non-tithers are under. God bless Edited January 10, 2011 by LuftWaffle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthitjah Posted January 10, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 1,285 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 17,917 Content Per Day: 2.27 Reputation: 355 Days Won: 19 Joined: 10/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted January 10, 2011 And yet, here is the vow of Jacob; Ge 28:22 And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God's house: and of all that you shall give me I will surely give the tenth unto you. It wasn't about his produce it was about all that God had and would be giving him and it wasn't about what percent or even currying favor. It was about sincere worship from his heart. He already had been found in the blessing and the favor. His was an act of profound worship and thankfulness, as he was struck by the numinous awe. (Candice, that's a "$5.00 word locker" usage. ) peace, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthitjah Posted January 10, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 1,285 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 17,917 Content Per Day: 2.27 Reputation: 355 Days Won: 19 Joined: 10/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted January 10, 2011 Here's another thing; Next time you need a $20.00 from the local ATM and they charge you two or three dollars to use their machine and your bank charges you another buck fifty, think about the Tithe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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