Tithe???

[enoob57]

Hi Steven,

When God took Law and condemned all of His creation... the children of God were made ready for this

Ezek 11:19-21

19 Then I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within them, and take the stony heart out of their flesh, and give them a heart of flesh, 20 that they may walk in My statutes and keep My judgments and do them; and they shall be My people, and I will be their God. 21 But as for those whose hearts follow the desire for their detestable things and their abominations, I will recompense their deeds on their own heads," says the Lord God.

NKJV

Can you tell me the statues He speaks of?

I'm not entirely sure what you're asking me, here though I don't believe that gentile Christians should be keeping the ~630 Laws and statutes of the old testament. The bible teaches that the entire Law hinges upon loving God with all one's heart, mind and soul and loving your neighbor as yourself. That is the Christian law and when a man comes to God and is regenerated, then this is what is written upon the heart.

So, let me ask you the same question: Which statutes are we to keep?

Here is the Tithe of Old reapplied to the New Birth-

Matt 25:37-46

37 "Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink?

38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and

come to You?' 40 And the King will answer and say to them, 'Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of

these My brethren, you did it to Me.' 41 "Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting

fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink;

43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.'

44 "Then they also will answer Him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison,

and did not minister to You?' 45 Then He will answer them, saying, 'Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the

least of these, you did not do it to Me.' 46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

NKJV

Either way, I have mentioned that your church probably distinguishes between tithes and offerings, can you confirm this?

My Brother and Pastor does not speak of the tithe but allows people to give... Missions we stress in giving to for it is commanded of us to go...

We are a people that seek out God in all that we do and one way to make room for Him in our hearts is to lay aside all love for money and this world!

Your post that I have not alluded to seems very protective of that which God teaches is worthless.... Love Steven

[enoob57]

Indeed, giving when it is not convenient says volumes about a person. I'm not saying that you should only give your abundance, but not to give so much that you cannot pay the bills or put food on the table for family. Another way to look at is to keep your spending in check; make sure you have a reasonable lifestyle for your income. Basically it is all about being smart with your money. Don't try to stretch out your earnings so much that you get yourself in financial trouble, but if it happens perhaps it is best for you to get back on your feet financially, work out a more reasonable budget or whatever you have to do, then start giving normally or even more so when you can.

And again, to draw giving into a wider perspective, money isn't the only thing we can give, and oftentimes our talents and time are more beneficial than giving some cash. Not to mention giving your time and energy to the Church is sometimes more of a sacrifice than sending in a check every so often. So I'd be careful to put so much weight on how much money you give to the Church, such is just one dimension of charity.

The nearest to God we shall be is to have recognized need of Him in all areas of life... and then to give where He directs in that need without thought or hesitation and it is here His unseen hand will become seen in the eyes of faith! It is a bonding like no other and His presence within becomes a consuming fire that burns the dross from our hearts... suffering becomes joy unspeakable and full of glory in the increase of relationship of Father to Child!

James 4:8-10

8 Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded. 9 Lament and mourn and weep! Let your laughter be turned to mourning and your joy to gloom. 10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and He will lift you up.

NKJV

His desire is to be relied upon solely upon His Word of Promise... the world and our own bodily functions as to sensual perception will come against this pursuit in Him but the reward of growth is The Pearl of Great Price... Love Steven

[LuftWaffle]

Hi Steven,

Thank you for the response.

Here is the Tithe of Old reapplied to the New Birth-

Matt 25:37-46

37 "Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink?

38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and

come to You?' 40 And the King will answer and say to them, 'Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of

these My brethren, you did it to Me.' 41 "Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting

fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink;

43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.'

44 "Then they also will answer Him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison,

and did not minister to You?' 45 Then He will answer them, saying, 'Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the

least of these, you did not do it to Me.' 46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

NKJV

This says nothing about giving a monetary tithe to the local church. In fact, I believe this verse goes against modern tithing for often times tithing is taught as follows, "Your tithe must go to the church first and foremost, thereafter if you want to give to charity or missions you can give them an offering, but only after you've tithed."

If you like I can post video clips of this very thing being taught. This very teaching isn't scripturally sound and it goes against the verses that you've posted. God clearly assosiates with the poor, the destitute, the orphan and the widow. These are the very people who are neglected with modern tithing teaching.

I'd also like to add that Matthew 25:37-46 cannot possibly be a reapplication of the biblical tithe, because as per Deut 14 the biblical tithe wasn't primarily about charity. Granted it has a big charity aspect, but primarily tithing formed part of the festival of booths and as such is feast in thanksgiving for God's providence.

My Brother and Pastor does not speak of the tithe but allows people to give... Missions we stress in giving to for it is commanded of us to go...

If your brother and pastor does not speak of the tithe but allows people to give, then I have a great deal of respect for him. Unfortunately such pastors are becoming fewer and fewer.

Your post that I have not alluded to seems very protective of that which God teaches is worthless.... Love Steven

Irrelevant ad hominem and quite interesting actually considering that most churches who place emphasis on tithing, offer 'financial blessings' as an incentive.

Here's a fine example: http://www.tithing.org/

This website is nothing but the logical end of modern tithing preaching. God suddenly is reduced from being the sovereign and thrice Holy Lord of the universe, to a business partner, who can be bought in order to 'Get what you want'.

The doctrine ends up with God being endebted to man instead of the other way around, because people tithe and expect the blessings that they're owed because the preacher twisted the biblical tithe into a modern investment scheme. Members tithe, the pastor (acting as broker) takes his cut, and long term returns are expected.

Not all churches are this bad, but the only thing seperating them is how far they push this modern doctrine.

Reading the success stories on tithing.org is even more telling http://www.tithing.o...ing_stories.php

The unifying principle in all those posts is money. Not God's holiness, not His grace, but how well tithing worked.

Here's another example:

http://www.worldtocome.org/Tithing

The subheading to the webpage actually says, "Tithing in the New Testament will Bring Financial Security! "

I actually had a discussion with a pastor on this issue a while back and was shocked by what this pastor said to me. He claimed that poverty is a sign of a lack of faith and that he has no sympathy with poor Christians. "They bring it on themselves because they don't tithe".

Here's another example that implies the same thing

http://www.essortmen...ithing_rayf.htm

"Obedience opens up opportunities for God to bless us. Just as a responsible parent would not reward a disobedient child, God cannot reward us when we do not obey Him. If you are struggling financially, it could be a result of financial disobedience. This is not the only reason we experience financial difficulty, certainly, but it can be one reason."

Notice the implications of the above statement:

It paints a picture of God who desperately wants to help you, but unfortunately He can't because you're behind on your payments. Also it states that financial problems may be caused by financial disobedience, in otherwords, your financial problems go away if you start tithing and if you're poor, it's your own fault.

Here's another

http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2005/11/tithing/

He describes the first benefit of tithing as, "Overcoming scarcity thinking. Tithing helps you develop a greater sense of abundance. By giving away 10% of your income, you’re programming your subconscious to believe in abundance thinking. This can make you more open and receptive to receiving money. If you think abundance, you’re more likely to experience abundance."

So I don't think the common tactic of accusing those opposed to this modern doctrine of being 'protective of worldly things' actually squares with reality.

Edited January 16, 2011 by LuftWaffle

[LuftWaffle]

The following is the biblical tithe defined. This particular section of scripture is very seldomly preached on nowadays especially during sermons on tithing. I'd like to post it here, so that it can be seen.

Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year. And thou shalt eat before the LORD thy God, in the place which he shall choose to place his name there, the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstlings of thy herds and of thy flocks; that thou mayest learn to fear the LORD thy God always. And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it; or if the place be too far from thee, which the LORD thy God shall choose to set his name there, when the LORD thy God hath blessed thee: Then shalt thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the LORD thy God shall choose: And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household, And the Levite that is within thy gates; thou shalt not forsake him; for he hath no part nor inheritance with thee. At the end of three years thou shalt bring forth all the tithe of thine increase the same year, and shalt lay it up within thy gates: And the Levite, (because he hath no part nor inheritance with thee,) and the stranger, and the fatherless, and the widow, which are within thy gates, shall come, and shall eat and be satisfied; that the LORD thy God may bless thee in all the work of thine hand which thou doest.

(Deu 14:22-29)

[JCISGD]

hi Luft, your user name betrays you, and you do seem to "waffle" on with a seemingly preconcieved idea that churches and pastors should be content with whatever scraps are thrown their way.

"Waffle"...I like that...very clever

While its true some are greedy "filthy money" lovers, the church is a God ordained vehicle to spread the gospel and gathering of the believers on the Lords Day.

I agree. Did I give the impression that I don't believe the church is a God ordained vehicle to spread the gospel? But being the vehicle for spreading the gospel surely doesn't give the church the authority to take tithes on God's behalf?

Its true also no one has to give 10%, but its not true that the Holy Spirit causes disorder by abolishing the need to support pastors and the costs of bulidings in the name of faith.

Wow, I don't recall saying that the Holy spirit abolishes the need to support pastors. What I wrote in regard to giving is:

"I generally advise that Christians follow the lead of the Holy Spirit and if the Holy spirit says, "The pastor needs your help" then you give all you can...."

- Post #64

The rule of thumb is that if we are part of a gathering we should pull our weight and "owe no man anything". Also he who does not look after his own family (which includes the church he attends) is "worse than an infidel."

I wonder, whether teaching manmade laws to cover the running expenses of a modern megachurch is what the author had in mind when he wrote, "A man who doesn't look after his family is worse than an unbeliever"

This discussion as far as I understand is supposed to be about the doctrine of modern tithing and it's validity, not about whether it's effective in keeping churches open. I have no doubt that tithing is effective in making churches wealthy, the wealthiest churches in the world afterall, are also the ones that place the most emphasis on tithing.

We may give to individuals and causes, but we are first obligated to give consistant regular support to any minister we regulary recieve from.

Scripture please?

Would you accept any less from your work place? why then do you make issue of tithing to support the work of God, and if its not Gods work then why give anything?

Friend, honestly have you read what I posted at all? I don't have an issue with supporting God's work, neither do I have a problem with pastors earning a living. What I do have an issue with is taking an old testament law, and modifying it entirely so that the only similarity with the original is the name 'tithing' and then teaching it as a God given law and enforcing this new law using scripture references to the original meaning coupled with threats about robbing God, appeals to emotion, anecdotal evidence and promises of financial blessings.

If a church needs money, why not just ask for it? Why play tricks? If a church struggles and asks for help and the congregation is too self-centred and stingy to assist, then perhaps the pastor hasn't been preaching the gospel enough, not so?

This is really what I think it boils down to: pastors nowadays don't really trust their congregations, which in turn reflects on their trust for God's providence, why else would they do this?

Mat 10:7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Mat 10:8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.

Mat 10:9 Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses,

Mat 10:10 Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat.

God bless

Sorry Luft it looks like i was the one dong the waffling and i apologise for misreading what you were saying or atleast over reaching with my answers, and toying with your name, i though it was a play on words? i hope i have not made fun of you real name.

I would only say that if you are appointed by God to shepherd a flock and your understanding is working for you, then all glory to God and may it be found helpful to others pehaps.

Myself im a armchair critic or a back seat driver in the matter, so i guess i will continue tithing and recieving a harvest.

I think you might be taking Math 10:7-10 out of context somewhat as this was a one off trip they were sent on before they had recieved the Holy Spirit at pentecost and before Paul was taught of Jesus personally in reguard to the running of the church etc., but im no expert.

If the scriptures teach to tithe then it is tempting God to wait fior a specific prompting of the Holy Spirit to do what has already been commanded imo. Sorry but i just dont see what is gained by doing away with tithing even though some foolish people give a tithe to rascals, charlatans and even cults, but the abuse of a good thing does not warrant its removal, its the abuse that should be address.

Maybe hand them over to Satan for the destruction of flesh, that the soul be saved? thats biblical

[LuftWaffle]

Sorry Luft it looks like i was the one dong the waffling and i apologise for misreading what you were saying or atleast over reaching with my answers, and toying with your name, i though it was a play on words? i hope i have not made fun of you real name.

Yeah, the name's LuftWaffle von Icecream-und-Maple-syrup-stein-berger and I am highly offended

Hey, no worries

I think you might be taking Math 10:7-10 out of context somewhat as this was a one off trip they were sent on before they had recieved the Holy Spirit at pentecost and before Paul was taught of Jesus personally in reguard to the running of the church etc., but im no expert.

I'm open to comments on the text, but I would say though that if you look at post-pentacostal evangelism is precisely in line with Jesus' instruction in Math 10.

They did preach the kingdom of God, they did heal the sick and cast out demons. In terms of not providing for themselves Paul states that he didn't draw a salary from the churches he planted but instead made tents to cover his necessities.

Act 20:33 I have coveted no man's silver, or gold, or apparel.

Act 20:34 Yea, ye yourselves know, that these hands have ministered unto my necessities, and to them that were with me.

So even if it was only a once-off instruction, it seems the apostles stuck to it.

If the scriptures teach to tithe then it is tempting God to wait fior a specific prompting of the Holy Spirit to do what has already been commanded imo.

Well, this is the key issue. Where exactly are gentile Christians under the new covenant instructed to pay tithes in the form of money to churches?

See, the problem here isn't in the church getting funding, but how it gets it.

When you think of the word tithing, I imagine you see it as giving a minimum of ten percent of your gross income to the church to support the running of the church, right?

Now suppose I arrive at your church one day with some sheep and goats and perhaps even some strong drink. And I slaughter these animals and barbeque them and have an enormous party, inviting lots of poor people to join in and feast on all the great stuff. And you come to me saying, "Man, what the heck are you doing? This is a church!!!!" and I say, "God looked after me this year and we're having a party honouring him for His providence."

You'd think I'm a little nutty, right? But in actual fact this very thing that I'm doing is something you hear in churches all over, but it's changed so much that people won't even recognise it when they see it. That big party is actually the biblical tithe.

I have posted Deut 14 in an earlier post, where God defines the Biblical tithe, and what I've described here is pretty close to the real thing. Problem is, people won't recognise it as tithing, because people have been given a new definition of tithing which isn't commanded anywhere in scripture.

Sorry but i just dont see what is gained by doing away with tithing even though some foolish people give a tithe to rascals, charlatans and even cults, but the abuse of a good thing does not warrant its removal, its the abuse that should be address.

Maybe hand them over to Satan for the destruction of flesh, that the soul be saved? thats biblical

It's all about definitions. The problem isn't the church getting support (see Declaration G - Post #76)....hehe.

The problem is using the word 'tithe' to justify mandatory donations which is an equivocation.

Let me give you an example of what I mean:

Suppose I put up an online store where I sell the latest BlackBerry ™ for a discounted price of $100. The credit card orders come rolling in because, let's face it, that's pretty cheap for a high-end smartphone, right?

But then what do I deliver to my customers?

This:

The latest blackberry....handpicked this morning.

What happened, here?

An equivocation: In once sense I'm using the word BlackBerry in reference to a mobile phone, but then subtly switch the definition to the blackberry fruit for my own benefit. Which means my customers got royally conned paying $100 for a fruit.

Now, how does this relate to tithing?

The Bible defines tithing as in Deut 14. The church defines tithing as something totally different, but uses verses like Malachi 3:10, Matthew 23 etc. to defend the switched definition of tithing. People believe they're obeying a command God gave, but in fact they're obeying a new manmade command that happens to have the same name.

I hope this puts my position into perspective.

God bless

Edited January 16, 2011 by LuftWaffle

[enoob57]

So I don't think the common tactic of accusing those opposed to this modern doctrine of being 'protective of worldly things' actually squares with reality.

Reality does not exist with that which passes away... The True Life, The True Way, The Truth does not pass away but remains a reality for all eternities

Do you understand this verse?

Matt 13:12

12 For whoever has, to him more will be given, and he will have abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him.

NKJV

Much of what I have replied to you is Spiritual heart attitude toward this world and its heart beat "money"! The above verse speaks of not having and yet in that not having state what something remains to be

taken away. You seem to be a man who battles for the hard fast rules of law or standards in which to live by formed in your mind by a logic that you rely upon! There is freedom set forth in Grace by the Holy Spirit so that we are in the world but not of it. In this freedom one can be blown about by The Wind of God doing the things of God and be gaining that which he cannot loose so that the abundance spoken of above is as all things of God eternal and pure... even our own bodies will shrink back for the fear of suffering and then we who are of Spirit must remember this

Matt 10:28-29

28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

NKJV

It is why He reacts to those who turn back in this manner

Heb 10:37-38

37 "For yet a little while,

And He who is coming will come and will not tarry.

38 Now the just shall live by faith;

But if anyone draws back,

My soul has no pleasure in him."

NKJV

and again

Luke 9:62

62 But Jesus said to him, "No one, having put his hand to the plow, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God."

NKJV

Do not allow friend those who try to persuade you to focus upon the world and the the things in it for the serpent was more subtle than all else except Our Lord. For the obedience of God is no idols which defined is all that is created of God put before God at any time... So these who have placed monies as important enough as to say God wants it will answer as well to His Holy Word Christ Jesus... but for yourself realize the frailty of the short while it is given and place only that much concern for it and the rest of you give to God and be the plowman that looks ahead

Isa 55:1-3

55 "Ho! Everyone who thirsts,Come to the waters;And you who have no money,Come, buy and eat.Yes, come, buy wine and milkWithout money and without price. 2 Why do you spend money for what is not bread,And your wages for what does not satisfy?Listen carefully to Me, and eat what is good,And let your soul delight itself in abundance. 3 Incline your ear, and come to Me.Hear, and your soul shall live;And I will make an everlasting covenant with you

NKJV

The right to purchase sustenance in the eternal Kingdom of our Lord without monies is what Ananias and Sapphira could not understand... but into His hands they now are!

Love Steven

[LuftWaffle]

So I don't think the common tactic of accusing those opposed to this modern doctrine of being 'protective of worldly things' actually squares with reality.

Reality does not exist with that which passes away... The True Life, The True Way, The Truth does not pass away but remains a reality for all eternities

Do you understand this verse?

Matt 13:12

12 For whoever has, to him more will be given, and he will have abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him.

NKJV

Much of what I have replied to you is Spiritual heart attitude toward this world and its heart beat "money"! The above verse speaks of not having and yet in that not having state what something remains to be

taken away. You seem to be a man who battles for the hard fast rules of law or standards in which to live by formed in your mind by a logic that you rely upon! There is freedom set forth in Grace by the Holy Spirit so that we are in the world but not of it. In this freedom one can be blown about by The Wind of God doing the things of God and be gaining that which he cannot loose so that the abundance spoken of above is as all things of God eternal and pure... even our own bodies will shrink back for the fear of suffering and then we who are of Spirit must remember this

Matt 10:28-29

28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

NKJV

It is why He reacts to those who turn back in this manner

Heb 10:37-38

37 "For yet a little while,

And He who is coming will come and will not tarry.

38 Now the just shall live by faith;

But if anyone draws back,

My soul has no pleasure in him."

NKJV

and again

Luke 9:62

62 But Jesus said to him, "No one, having put his hand to the plow, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God."

NKJV

Do not allow friend those who try to persuade you to focus upon the world and the the things in it for the serpent was more subtle than all else except Our Lord. For the obedience of God is no idols which defined is all that is created of God put before God at any time... So these who have placed monies as important enough as to say God wants it will answer as well to His Holy Word Christ Jesus... but for yourself realize the frailty of the short while it is given and place only that much concern for it and the rest of you give to God and be the plowman that looks ahead

Isa 55:1-3

55 "Ho! Everyone who thirsts,Come to the waters;And you who have no money,Come, buy and eat.Yes, come, buy wine and milkWithout money and without price. 2 Why do you spend money for what is not bread,And your wages for what does not satisfy?Listen carefully to Me, and eat what is good,And let your soul delight itself in abundance. 3 Incline your ear, and come to Me.Hear, and your soul shall live;And I will make an everlasting covenant with you

NKJV

The right to purchase sustenance in the eternal Kingdom of our Lord without monies is what Ananias and Sapphira could not understand... but into His hands they now are!

Love Steven

Hi Steven,

The beauty of the Christian gospel is that satisfies and fills the body, the mind and the soul. Christianity doesn't require that we abandon reason or logic. God is the God of order. He is the Logos, He is love and moreover He is Holy.

Spirituality isn't the opposite of logic, because logic is the study of truth. Spirituality without truth is a false spirituality.

Keep on tithing if you want to, but you know, and I know that you know why you've been trying to talk about everything but the topic at hand. I see what you're doing, you're trying desperately to create the impression that my opposition to tithing stems from worldliness or greed or whatever. It's easier thinking there's something wrong with me, then it is admitting that you're wrong. You've made up your mind and you're pushing this cart uphill. Think whatever pleases you about me, you're not even getting close to how evil and vile I really am. Thank goodness though that the truth isn't contingent upon my virtue...

I Leave you to your games, dear friend, because I have no interest in talking about myself. When you want to talk about the topic at hand, I'll be here.

God bless.

Edited January 16, 2011 by LuftWaffle

[deut31:12]

Hi,

Boy, do I have a hot-button topic for today.....I was attempting to make a dent in my living area this afternoon, and I had the radio on...I happened to catch the late J. Vernon McGee, who I have listened to it seems like forever. He was teaching out of Malachi, and boy, he hit a major nerve today.

He started teaching on Malachi 3, which talks about the tithe and the storehouse...and oh my heavens I almost came off the floor. He actually taught that tithing WASN'T FOR THE CHURCH TODAY. Of course, he taught the usual, that we are "not under the law but under grace" but he also said that tithing was under the law and that the CHURCH DIDN'T HAVE TO TITHE, NOR STORE IN THE STOREHOUSE.

Now I love Dr McGee, and I thank God for his ministry, but for me this teaching was just plain wrong. I'm thinking to myself, how irresponsible could this man be, and did he learn anything from Y'shua after he went home???

Yikes!!! I want to hear what y'all have to say....I know I sat there and listened with my jaw on the floor....

a.

Tithing was a commandment given to the Patriarchs and the Jews. It was NOT given to the Christians. To tithe properly you must needs understand what to "tithe" means. You gave 10% of everything you owned. You would give 10% of your land, house, cars, income, etc. If you owned $30,000 worth of possesions you would have to tithe $3,000.

You have to keep in mind that if you are going to keep any commandments you have to keep them EXACTLY as they were taught to be observed. The New Testament does not command for us to observe tithing. If I teach to observe and obey something that is not given for us to obey under the new law then I am adding to the law. If you personally want to tithe then it is YOUR right to do so, but to say that others are wrong for not doing it or that we don't love God if we don't do it is just wrong as we are not commanded to do it.

It greatly affects me how that people with fight to keep observances, like tithing, as a commandment and a law to be observed today, but with as much fervor denounce commandments, like baptism, which is taught on over 80 times in the NT.

[Guest]

Tithing was a commandment given to the Patriarchs and the Jews. It was NOT given to the Christians. To tithe properly you must needs understand what to "tithe" means. You gave 10% of everything you owned. You would give 10% of your land, house, cars, income, etc. If you owned $30,000 worth of possesions you would have to tithe $3,000.

You have to keep in mind that if you are going to keep any commandments you have to keep them EXACTLY as they were taught to be observed. The New Testament does not command for us to observe tithing. If I teach to observe and obey something that is not given for us to obey under the new law then I am adding to the law. If you personally want to tithe then it is YOUR right to do so, but to say that others are wrong for not doing it or that we don't love God if we don't do it is just wrong as we are not commanded to do it.

It greatly affects me how that people with fight to keep observances, like tithing, as a commandment and a law to be observed today, but with as much fervor denounce commandments, like baptism, which is taught on over 80 times in the NT.

One reason for all the division and confusion about the "tithing" issue is this: Ask a question of the leadership in many (not all!!) churches today is like asking, "Do you want a pay raise?" Again: not all churches are this way, but some are.