Guest man Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 I had said that he is conquering the hearts of men. He most definitely conquered mine, and yours I'm sure. He is indeed bringing to a completion the finished work of our Lord Jesus Christ in that He causes us to be, "...more than conquerors through him that loved us..." (Rom 8:14-39) He is even now subduing the world, the flesh and the devil to bring to a final conclusion that which the Lord accomplished on the cross. Though we do not see all things yet brought into subjection unto Him, we do see Jesus... I don't want to sound argumentative, but I don't see that to be true. It's actually a contradiction to what the Word states about the final days. The Holy Spirit is described in the Word as a "Helper", not a conquerer. I could be wrong. If I am, please correct me. I see the Holy Spirit as a personal assistant. Someone who intercedes on our behalf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdktlk Posted January 13, 2011 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 282 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/30/2010 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 13, 2011 I had said that he is conquering the hearts of men. He most definitely conquered mine, and yours I'm sure. He is indeed bringing to a completion the finished work of our Lord Jesus Christ in that He causes us to be, "...more than conquerors through him that loved us..." (Rom 8:14-39) He is even now subduing the world, the flesh and the devil to bring to a final conclusion that which the Lord accomplished on the cross. Though we do not see all things yet brought into subjection unto Him, we do see Jesus... I don't want to sound argumentative, but I don't see that to be true. It's actually a contradiction to what the Word states about the final days. The Holy Spirit is described in the Word as a "Helper", not a conquerer. I could be wrong. If I am, please correct me. I see the Holy Spirit as a personal assistant. Someone who intercedes on our behalf. He is that for sure. But in order for Him to help us we must first be born again. Jesus said to Nicodemus, "You must be born again." The Lord goes on to describe the power of this conquering event in that, you can experience the power thereof. (Jn 3:1-8) At this point He becomes our helper, but before that He must conquer our hearts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted January 13, 2011 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 598 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,167 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,892 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted January 13, 2011 I had said that he is conquering the hearts of men. He most definitely conquered mine, and yours I'm sure. He is indeed bringing to a completion the finished work of our Lord Jesus Christ in that He causes us to be, "...more than conquerors through him that loved us..." (Rom 8:14-39) He is even now subduing the world, the flesh and the devil to bring to a final conclusion that which the Lord accomplished on the cross. Though we do not see all things yet brought into subjection unto Him, we do see Jesus... I don't want to sound argumentative, but I don't see that to be true. It's actually a contradiction to what the Word states about the final days. The Holy Spirit is described in the Word as a "Helper", not a conquerer. I could be wrong. If I am, please correct me. I see the Holy Spirit as a personal assistant. Someone who intercedes on our behalf. I'm having the same trouble as you with this Man..... it just doesn't click for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdktlk Posted January 13, 2011 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 282 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/30/2010 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 13, 2011 I had said that he is conquering the hearts of men. He most definitely conquered mine, and yours I'm sure. He is indeed bringing to a completion the finished work of our Lord Jesus Christ in that He causes us to be, "...more than conquerors through him that loved us..." (Rom 8:14-39) He is even now subduing the world, the flesh and the devil to bring to a final conclusion that which the Lord accomplished on the cross. Though we do not see all things yet brought into subjection unto Him, we do see Jesus... I don't want to sound argumentative, but I don't see that to be true. It's actually a contradiction to what the Word states about the final days. The Holy Spirit is described in the Word as a "Helper", not a conquerer. I could be wrong. If I am, please correct me. I see the Holy Spirit as a personal assistant. Someone who intercedes on our behalf. I'm having the same trouble as you with this Man..... it just doesn't click for me. It really isn't that hard. Jesus said, "And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with POWER from on high." (lUK 24:49) It is the Holy Spirit which endues us with power to preach the gospel and He has been conquering the hearts of men since Pentecost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest man Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 He is that for sure. But in order for Him to help us we must first be born again. Jesus said to Nicodemus, "You must be born again." The Lord goes on to describe the power of this conquering event in that, you can experience the power thereof. (Jn 3:1-8) At this point He becomes our helper, but before that He must conquer our hearts. It really isn't that hard. Jesus said, "And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with POWER from on high." (lUK 24:49) It is the Holy Spirit which endues us with power to preach the gospel and He has been conquering the hearts of men since Pentecost. To conquer something means to take over, to have control. I don't believe that is the function of the Holy Spirit. If that were the mission of the Holy Spirit, free will would cease to exist. The believer would be nothing more than a puppet to be manipulated to do whatever. I don't believe that's the case. If the white horse is a symbol of righteousness, as you say, then I believe that symbol could represent a false symbol. It is stated that there will be many false signs and wonders leading up to the final days. The rider on that white horse could be an indication of false doctrine. The Word speaks of a "falling away" prior to the end. This first horseman could be that falling away. Just something to think about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted January 13, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.95 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted January 13, 2011 If the white horse is a symbol of righteousness, as you say, then I believe that symbol could represent a false symbol. It is stated that there will be many false signs and wonders leading up to the final days. The rider on that white horse could be an indication of false doctrine. Holy War, False religion, False hope (Socialist and Communist revolutions began that way), etc. I've been considering for a while this to be what that means, the conquering spirit with the appearance of looking "good". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdktlk Posted January 13, 2011 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 282 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/30/2010 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 13, 2011 (edited) He is that for sure. But in order for Him to help us we must first be born again. Jesus said to Nicodemus, "You must be born again." The Lord goes on to describe the power of this conquering event in that, you can experience the power thereof. (Jn 3:1-8) At this point He becomes our helper, but before that He must conquer our hearts. It really isn't that hard. Jesus said, "And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with POWER from on high." (lUK 24:49) It is the Holy Spirit which endues us with power to preach the gospel and He has been conquering the hearts of men since Pentecost. To conquer something means to take over, to have control. I don't believe that is the function of the Holy Spirit. If that were the mission of the Holy Spirit, free will would cease to exist. The believer would be nothing more than a puppet to be manipulated to do whatever. I don't believe that's the case. If the white horse is a symbol of righteousness, as you say, then I believe that symbol could represent a false symbol. It is stated that there will be many false signs and wonders leading up to the final days. The rider on that white horse could be an indication of false doctrine. The Word speaks of a "falling away" prior to the end. This first horseman could be that falling away. Just something to think about. In the Book of Revelation we see many things and always when they are something other than what they appear to be we see, "like unto" (Rev 1:13; 9:10) or "as it were" (which means similar to) (Rev 15:2) this horse IS a white horse, the Scriptures do not allude to the fact that its appearance is other than what it is. WHITE. One further thing to ponder, why would the Lamb that was slain wait 2000 years or more before taking any action with the scroll, that would seem very strange indeed. Edited January 13, 2011 by sdktlk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted January 13, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.95 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted January 13, 2011 One further thing to ponder, why would the Lamb that was slain wait 2000 years or more before taking any action with the scroll, that would seem very strange indeed. Why did Almighty God wait 4000 years (I think it is) from the Fall to fulfilling Redemption (death and resurrection)? Is it outside your theology to accept that the scroll was meant to be sealed until the End of Days? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted January 13, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.95 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted January 13, 2011 One further thing to ponder, why would the Lamb that was slain wait 2000 years or more before taking any action with the scroll, that would seem very strange indeed. Why did Almighty God wait 4000 years (I think it is) from the Fall to fulfilling Redemption (death and resurrection)? Is it outside your theology to accept that the scroll was meant to be sealed until the End of Days? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdktlk Posted January 13, 2011 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 282 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/30/2010 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 13, 2011 One further thing to ponder, why would the Lamb that was slain wait 2000 years or more before taking any action with the scroll, that would seem very strange indeed. Why did Almighty God wait 4000 years (I think it is) from the Fall to fulfilling Redemption (death and resurrection)? Is it outside your theology to accept that the scroll was meant to be sealed until the End of Days? That is absolutely true about the 4000 years, but many Scriptural events went on between the two. It seems the longest "silence" I can find in the Bible is From the Book of Malachi to the coming of the Lord, which consisted of approximately 400 years. But, back to the point that was being discussed, which was if this is a "white" horse how can the rider be an unholy thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts