The Rise Of The New Spontaneous Generationists

[Guest]

The Rise Of The New Spontaneous Generationists

By Robert Deyes

ARN Correspondent

Just three centuries ago spontaneous generation was embraced as a reality that seemed to agree well with scientific observations (Ref 1). It was thought that organisms could appear in their fully mature form without any initial development from young to adult. As one review summarized:

"Many sensible biologists believed in spontaneous generation- the idea that new life could form from decaying matter. It explained the existence of internal parasites of the human body such as tapeworms, which had no free-living counterparts, and the numerous 'animalcules' and 'infusoria' (microbes) that were revealed by the microscope but which had no clear origin" (Ref 2, p.90)

The 17th century physician Jan Baptista van Helmont became a proponent of spontaneous generation when, by putting two leaves together in putrid conditions, he generated 'long eels' (later found to be hyphae of fungal growth; Ref 3, p.2). Subsequent claims of spontaneously generated frogs and rats from mud and garbage mounds were quick in coming (Ref 3, p.2; Ref 4, pp.96-97). For the burgeoning amateur scientist there was even a recipe for how to generate life- take a dirty garment, add some wheat, let it ferment for a few hours overnight and watch mice spontaneously form (Refs 1,5). Of course today we may humor such stories, relegating them to nothing more than interesting quirks in the history of scientific discovery......

To summarize, organic matter is seen as "the stuff of which life is spontaneously generated by nature" (Ref 8, p.71). In effect evolutionists have today replaced 17th century incantations of life-generating garbage mounds with wild suppositions of how life might have originated naturally in the silts of our earth. As perhaps the most outspoken of the new crop of Spontaneous Generationists, zoologist Richard Dawkins had this to say on the matter:

"Before the coming of life on earth, some rudimentary evolution of molecules could have occurred by ordinary processes of physics and chemistry. There is no need to think of design or purpose or directedness. If a group of atoms in the presence of energy falls into a stable pattern it will tend to stay that way. The earliest form of natural selection was simply a selection of stable forms and a rejection of unstable ones. There is no mystery about this. It had to happen by definition" (Ref 9, p.13)

Dawkins has yet to clarify the factual details of a purely naturalistic prebiotic evolution. After all, prebiotic simulation experiments have repeatedly demonstrated the requirement for investigators to guide reactions to a desired end (Ref 8, p.56).....

He hath made every thing beautiful in his time: also he hath set the world in their heart, so that no man can find out the work that God maketh from the beginning to the end. Ecclesiastes 3:11

[Fraught]

Just three centuries ago spontaneous generation...

First, it's rather silly to equate pre-scientific notions of spontaneous generation with modern ideas concerning abiogensis. Second, the article seems to have left out some important information such as the Powner and Sutherland experiments where they demonstrated that pyrimidine ribonucleotides can form under prebiotic conditions.

I think the point is that 'modern ideas' are having to resort to 'pre-scientific' notions. Sure, more contemporary phrasing is being used, but can't we look beneath semantics to what is really being said? some people don't.

[Guest]

Happy

Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful. Psalms 1:1

Knowledge

But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night. Psalms 1:2

Is True Knowledge

___________

I think the point is that 'modern ideas' are having to resort to 'pre-scientific' notions. Sure, more contemporary phrasing is being used, but can't we look beneath semantics to

what is really being said? some people don't.....

Even if modern ideas of science are similar to archaic models and such, it does nothing to discredit the actual science surrounding the topic. You wouldn't, I hope, try to discredit atomic theory because the idea is so similar to the ancient Greek idea of "atom" which modern science gets the name from wrapped up in "contemporary phrasing".

Science isn't ultimately concerned with how modern or primitive the ideas or notions are, it is all about what the evidence suggests.....

Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding? Isaiah 29:16

It's Just The Same Goofy Old Wives's Tales Warmed Over You See

But refuse profane and old wives' fables, and exercise thyself rather unto godliness. 1 Timothy 4:7

But The Knowledge Of The Godhead Is Seen By All

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Romans 1:20

And The True Evidence Of The Word

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. For by it the elders obtained a good report. Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear. Hebrews 11:1-3

Will On That Day Stand

And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage. Jude 1:14-16

Truth To Tell

For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God. Romans 14:11-12

At Judgement

Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil. Ecclesiastes 12:13-14

Time

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Believe

I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins. John 8:24

And Be Blessed Beloved

Love, Joe

[MorningGlory]

Just three centuries ago spontaneous generation...

First, it's rather silly to equate pre-scientific notions of spontaneous generation with modern ideas concerning abiogensis. Second, the article seems to have left out some important information such as the Powner and Sutherland experiments where they demonstrated that pyrimidine ribonucleotides can form under prebiotic conditions.

I think the point is that 'modern ideas' are having to resort to 'pre-scientific' notions. Sure, more contemporary phrasing is being used, but can't we look beneath semantics to what is really being said? some people don't.

If that's the case, then the whole argument is shown to be incorrect by my single link above. Science has advanced just a wee little bit over the last few hundred years.

Are you a scientist, Sam?

[MorningGlory]

I think the point is that 'modern ideas' are having to resort to 'pre-scientific' notions. Sure, more contemporary phrasing is being used, but can't we look beneath semantics to what is really being said? some people don't.

Even if modern ideas of science are similar to archaic models and such, it does nothing to discredit the actual science surrounding the topic. You wouldn't, I hope, try to discredit atomic theory because the idea is so similar to the ancient Greek idea of "atom" which modern science gets the name from wrapped up in "contemporary phrasing".

Science isn't ultimately concerned with how modern or primitive the ideas or notions are, it is all about what the evidence suggests.

Are you a scientist, D-9?

[MorningGlory]

Are you a scientist, Sam?

Why? Are you? Do you have a relevant response to the research I've linked?

BTW, I see you are a fellow Texan! I lived in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area for a number of years.

Why, you ask? Because if someone is posting research and pontificating I want to know their title. In other words, are your words your own or those of someone else? I am not a scientist, I'm an engineer. And I would hold forth on engineering principles if they were being discussed. (The subject doesn't seem to come up much here....).

[MorningGlory]

Are you a scientist, D-9?

I'm not sure how that is particularly relevant to anything I said.

What happens if I say yes or no?

Nothing. I just like to know where people are coming from. Being a scientist would be VERY relevant to the discussion of science, IMO.

[MorningGlory]

Nothing. I just like to know where people are coming from. Being a scientist would be VERY relevant to the discussion of science, IMO.

Perhaps, but I feel like I said nothing that isn't fairly rudimentary of science that would make any scientific credentials I have substantiate my point. Science is ultimately about evidence, not how old or young ideas are.

As far as being a scientist, I believe I got 2nd and 3rd place at the science fair in 4th and 5th grade respectively. I still remember the experiments too; I analyzed how alert and responsive people were during different times of the day (people are usually most responsive during early afternoon according to my data) and how well people are able to memorize sets of data in a limited time (most people are able to retain 6-12 words in short term memory according to my data, I think ).

On a more serious note, no I am not a scientist, more like a scientist in training; sophomore biology major. One of my best friends growing up in high school is getting an engineering degree, quite bright, and he too rejects evolution. Us and one other guy used to get into arguments all the time about evolution and God, drove our teachers nuts it did. One thing that you'll realize if you're in the creation-evolution debate long enough is all these creationist engineers write article after article on the faults of evolution, or how the 2LoT disproves evolution or abiogenesis and so on. So I get the impression that many bright creationists, who would otherwise go into some sort of natural science if it didn't conflict with religious convictions, end up going into some field of engineering. In your experience is this true?

No, I actually didn't start out to be an engineer. I dabbled in pre-law, then pre-med then majored in computer science. I drifted into engineering because the principles made sense to me and I enjoy solving problems. That and the fact that it pays a decent wage and there are few women in the field. I ask about your background because I like to understand how someone forms their opinions. For myself, I didn't become a firm believer in a literal Creation until I was born again in 2003. Yes, I used to buy the TOE because that's what I grew up with. I have since realized my error; to me, evolution above the species level is simply illogical. But this had no bearing on my choice of career.

[Guest]

Why, you ask? Because if someone is posting research and pontificating I want to know their title. In other words, are your words your own or those of someone else? I am not a scientist, I'm an engineer. And I would hold forth on engineering principles if they were being discussed. (The subject doesn't seem to come up much here....).

I am not pontificating, but merely sharing information. Further, unlike the original poster on this thread, I did use my own words.

If you must know, I flunked out of high school. However, I've been known to read a book or journal article here and there. Please feel free to discuss the information I provided at any level of detail you wish. I'll do my best to keep up.

A Well Read Man

And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed:

And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.

Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men: Isaiah 29:11-13 (King James Version)

Is A Wise Man (Sometimes)

Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of King Herod, behold, wise men from the east came to Jerusalem, saying,

"Where is he who is born King of the Jews? For we saw his star in the east, and have come to worship him." Matthew 2:1-2 (World English Bible)

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Cut

and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. 2 Timothy 3:15-17 (New International Version)

And Paste

For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is God's power for the salvation of everyone who believes, of the Jew first and of the Greek as well. Romans 1:16 (New American Standard Bible)

Can Give Credit

And the heaven and the earth and all things in them were complete.

And on the seventh day God came to the end of all his work; and on the seventh day he took his rest from all the work which he had done.

And God gave his blessing to the seventh day and made it holy: because on that day he took his rest from all the work which he had made and done. Genesis 2:1-3 (Bible in Basic English)

Where Credit Is Due

For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him.

And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together. Colossians 1:16-17 (English Standard Version)

Don't You

"Come on now, let's discuss this!" says the LORD. "Though your sins are bright red, they will become as white as snow. Though they are dark red, they will become as white as wool. Isaiah 1:18 (GOD'S WORD Translation)

Think Praying~!

[Guest]

A Well Read Man Is A Wise Man (Sometimes)

Thanks for the kind words. Reading can certainly help us gain knowledge, wisdom is a bit more elusive, as I'm sure you know.

Can I ask if you've ever gone back to get your diploma? You certainly seem articulate enough and the teacher in my can't resist asking.

Hi Lurker, yes I did go back and get a diploma. At the time, a friend of mine helped me with English, my main stumbling block. Despite my own poor behavior, I've had some folks along the way who have lifted me up until I could manage on my own.