Who is Jesus?

[TheGenuineChristian]

Quote:

[TheGenuineChristian]

I know my beliefs are not the majority. I prefer the narrow path.

But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

I and my Father are one. John 10:26-30

Dear One, Would You Stone The LORD Jesus Too?

Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. John 10:31

No, but apparently you would seeing how you agree with the accusers instead of agreeing with Jesus' disagreement with them.

[Guest]

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. John 3:16-18

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I know my beliefs are not the majority. I prefer the narrow path.

But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

And I give unto them eternal life;

and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

I and my Father are one. John 10:26-30

Dear One, Would You Stone The LORD Jesus Too?

Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. John 10:31

No, but apparently you would seeing how you agree with the accusers instead of agreeing with Jesus' disagreement with them.

I Am Blessed

Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you. Matthew 5:11-12

To Love My Creator Jesus

Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. Colossians 1:13-17

My LORD And My God

Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might. And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart: Deuteronomy 6:4-6

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Dear One Do You Know My Jesus

And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you. Then saith he to Thomas, reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. John 20:26-28

Do You Know My LORD

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Isaiah 9:6

Do You Know God

And it came to pass, that, when the sun went down, and it was dark, behold a smoking furnace, and a burning lamp that passed between those pieces. In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates: Genesis 15:17-18

Have You Seen My Love My KING

Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost. 1 Corinthians 12:3

Do You Know He's LORD

But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God. Romans 14:10-12

Did You Heard His Call

Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door,

I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. Revelation 3:20

Yet

For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth;

they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil,

unto the resurrection of damnation. John 5:26-29

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Believe

He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. John 1:10-14

And Be Blessed Beloved

Love, Joe

[TheGenuineChristian]

I don't have time right now, about to leave to work and then after work go to bed, but when I wake I'll tackle Colossians 1:15-17, John 20:28, and Isaiah 9:6. Nothing there about Jesus being the Creator, the true God, or the Mighty God. Just wait for my reply before you freak out here. Thanks.

[TheGenuineChristian]

John 20:24 But Thomas (who was called the Twin), one of the twelve, was not with them when Jesus came.25So the other disciples told him,

[TheGenuineChristian]

Genuine...The fact that you attempt to disprove the Person of Christ is suprising.

A few of questions for you.

How could an ordinary man's sacrifice be satisifactory to God?

What ordinary man could live according to the commandments of God?

Does Christ live in you? If you say yes, by what way?

1) The Second Adam died, not God himself. The Lord Jesus died (Romans 10:9; Hebrews 13:20) not Yhvh. He wasn't just an ordinary man, try that spin with someone else.

2) One who knew his purpose here on earth and suffered in his strive to keep the Torah as he did keep it.

3) Yes. By the connection with the Father through the Holy Spirit.

Now let me ask you a question: Who is the 'God' that is 'of' the Lord Jesus?

Edited May 23, 2011 by TheGenuineChristian

[Guest shiloh357]

The Sages, Rashi, etc, disagree with you and say its about Torah. It cant be about literal wisdom for it says that Yhvh acquired it (verse 22). And I didnt ask if you agree with some man made creed of people who dont know God or Jesus.

Why would I follow the teachings of nonChristians? The text simply personifies wisdom. There is no justification for making more of the text than is there.

As I thought, you have no clue what you are talking about. Who are these major Christian scholar? Show me the Greek mechanics behind why it cant support Oneness and my view. This will expose that youre just speaking what you read somewhere or heard someone say as you will fail to provide why the Greek of John 1:1 cant support these two position. After your fail attempts I will show what real scholars say concerning John 1:1 on the Greek side, not some pencil and type writer pushers who pretend to know what theyre talking about.

My aren't you presumptuous? The problem that some cultists and false teachers have with John 1:1 is the lack of a definite article in front of theos. The assumption is that if there is no definite article the text should read "a god." In other words, they basically take the liberty to assume an indefinite article. In some places that is acceptable, but that is not always the correct way to handle the text.

To put a definite article in front of theos would make it appear that the God was the Word. That would be problematic because it would essentially be espousing modalism, which says there is only one person in the Godhead, namely Jesus and that Father Son and Spirit are three modes or offices that that Jthe one God exists in. Modalism is a recognized heresy in the churh today.

Notice that the first usage of the word theos refers to the one true God. If John wanted to avoid confusion in referring to a lesser "god," he would have used the indefinite article "tis". He would have used a different grammatical structure if his intent was to make Jesus a "god." That would have delinated the "Word" as a particular "god" entirely different than the true God. The Greek does not support that, though. What it does support is that Jesus was/is God in the flesh and the Divine Son of God.

First of all, our oldest translation says a god for John 1:1c.

"Older" does not mean more correct. It is also poor theology to base your core beliefs on a single translation.

Second of all, I dont care for how long a lie has existed (generations).

Well, you have not really established that anything we believe is a lie. Claiming it is a lie doesn't really make it so.

If I go up to a random Trinitarian right now and ask them if they know Greek and its grammar and if they studied the New Testament in the Greek, what will you think will be his answer?

Yes, but what about Chrisian Scholars who HAVE studied Greek and have read the NT Greek? That is the kind of person you need to square off with. You come here looking fo people whom you assume don't know Greek and will be easy to intimidate. You are like a predator who hunts the weaklings in the flock.

It doesnt say by it says in and then at the end it says through since he is the intermediary in the role of creation.

Really??? Hmmm. Probably need to read your Bible.

For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities--all things were created through him and for him.

(Col 1:16)

Bias, tradition, and fear of the crowd. The first translation says a god. No getting around this.

Yeah, that is a claim you cannot support. To say that every Scholar, translator and translation is wrong and only YOU are the harbinger of truth is what I expect from someone trying to start a cult.

So when it says in John 1:12-13 that we become Sons of God it means we possess the nature of God?

No. Again, there is the issue of contextual usage. Jesus uses the term Son of Man has a messianic reference to Himself, but there is also another usage of son of man applied in a different context that has no such meaning. Jesus is THE Son of God, and we are "sons of God." Those terms are applied differently. For exmple in John, the term of Son of God is applied in a unique way to Jesus. In fact, in John 3;16 the word begotten means "unique." Jesus as the Son of God is unique in that positon.

When Jesus was on trial, they asked Him if He was the Son of God and when he affirmed it, they accused Him of blasphemy. (Mark 14:61-62)

In John 11:27 Martha says that Jesus is the Son of God and yet in verse 22 says But even now I know that God will give you whatever you ask of him nullifying your argument.

Yes, that was Martha and she probably did not understand at that time just who Jesus was. Her lack of understanding is not sufficient to support your case.

So, where does Jesus claim to be God himself?

Here is what God the Father said of Himself: In Isaiah 41: 4, 44:6, and 48:12, God the Father refers to Himself as "The first and the Last," In the Book of Revelation here is what Jesus calls Himself:

When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. But he laid his right hand on me, saying, "Fear not, I am the first and the last, and the living one. I died, and behold I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of Death and Hades.

(Rev 1:17-18)

"And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write: 'The words of the first and the last, who died and came to life.

(Rev 2:8)

I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."

(Rev 22:13)

Edited May 24, 2011 by shiloh357

[Guest shiloh357]

If youre going to quote Tanach at least quote the context. He doesnt share his glory with idols.

I was not trying to quote the Tenach. But the fact remains that God has NEVER shared glory with men. When God does something, He wants all of the glory for it.

Go read John 17, shares glory with the Son and the Son shares that glory with his disciples.

He shares it with the disciples in the sense that He revealed it to them. They are not all sharing in God's glory in the sense that they are sharing the honor and credit that belongs only to God.

John 5:27 and he has given him authority to execute judgment, because he is the Son of Man.

Thus proving your wrong. Judgment consists of sins also as he says in Luke 5:24 that he has authority to forgive sins. This authority to forgive sins goes hand in hand with judgment. Cant forgive without judging them worthy of being forgiven.

You are really stretching on that one. John 5:27 is an eschatalogical statement. It refers to Jesus' authority as the Judge of the Kingdom and not merely to that current audience. Jesus, according to Phil 2 did not empty Himself of anything that made Him God. He took on the form of a servant and made Himself of no reputation. But His divine prerogatives remained intact.

I dont have to twist anything, the scripture itself supports my genuine orthodox belief about Jesus. And how would we translate elohim into the Greek in Exodus 4:16, 7:1, and Psalm 82:6? Do assume me. Wait wait, dont do it for it will show your argument futile and mine as legit.

Yes, it is a major twisting of Scripture and you are ignoring context and proper hermeneutics. Regardless of translating elohim as theos, the contextual usage does not allow for your interpretation of the passages in question.

I cant? LOL. Watch me.

John 10:34 Jesus answered, Is it not written in your law, I said, you are gods?35If those to whom the word of God came were called godsand the scripture cannot be annulled

Theoi (gods) is the plural of theos (god). So, particularly in the book of John it MUST MEAN Deity, or Deities in this case, right? LOL.

Sorry, but the contextual usage, particluarly the part from Pslams uses the term "god(s)" as magistrates. There is no way you can assert that deity is being ascribed to men out of that passage.

Youre making my case for me and you dont see it? LOL. So you just said that theos doesnt have to mean Deity in the sense of being the Almighty God. Thank you. Nor does theos in John 1:1c, John 20:28, and Hebrews 1:8-9 have to mean Deity in the sense of being the Almighty God.

Again, we go back to contextual usage. It really bugs false teachers and cultists because they are after word meaning. Word usage trumps meaning in any given context. Plus you have the sloppy grammar they apply to John 1:1.

As him being 100% man who was his God while he was here on earth? Im laughing so hard right now. Why? Cause you see that you have a foreign god compared to the one who you claim to follow or be a disciple of. Very amusing.

No, this demonstrates your lack of knowledge pertaining to the hypostactic union. Jesus operated in the flesh as a sinless man AND was also God. Jesus, in His humanity prayed to God, because He was providing us with a righteous model to follow. Jesus did a lot of things in His humanity in order to be a model for us in several matters. That the Father was Jesus' (the man) God, does not mean that Jesus Himself was not God.

Edited May 23, 2011 by shiloh357

[Guest]

On Guard~!

Little children, guard yourselves from idols. 1 John 5:21

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Now let me ask you a question: Who is the 'God' that is 'of' the Lord Jesus?

GOD Almighty

We know that no one who is born of God sins; but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him.

We know that we are of God, and that the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.

And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ.

This is the true God and eternal life. 1 John 5:18-20 (NASB)

God Is The Father

If we receive the testimony of men, the testimony of God is greater; for the testimony of God is this, that He has testified concerning His Son. 1 John 5:9

God Is The Son

The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself; the one who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has given concerning His Son.

And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.

He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life. 1 John 5:10-12

God Is The Holy Ghost

Who is the one who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?

This is the One who came by water and blood, Jesus Christ; not with the water only, but with the water and with the blood. It is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth. 1 John 5:6-6

There Is One God

Hear, O Israel!

The LORD is our God, the LORD is one!

"You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might.

"These words, which I am commanding you today, shall be on your heart. Deuteronomy 6:4-6

One God

You are My witnesses," declares the LORD,

"And My servant whom I have

chosen,

So that you may know and believe Me

And understand that I am He.

Before Me there was no God formed,

And there will be none after Me. "I, even I, am the LORD,

And there is no savior besides Me. Isaiah 43:10-11

One

This is what the LORD says--Israel's King and Redeemer, the LORD of Heaven's Armies: "I am the First and the Last; there is no other God. Isaiah 44:6

Believe

let it be known to all of you and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ the Nazarene, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead

[Guest]

If you're going to quote Tanach at least quote the context. He doesn't share his glory with idols.

I was not trying to quote the Tenach. But the fact remains that God has NEVER shared glory with men. When God does something, He wants all of the glory for it.

... Wow! I've Heard Of Those Who Study Torah With Claims Of Love

And now says the LORD, who formed Me from the womb to be His Servant,

To bring Jacob back to Him, so that Israel might be gathered to Him

(For I am honored in the sight of the LORD,

And My God is My strength),

He says, "It is too small a thing that You should be My Servant

To raise up the tribes of Jacob and to restore the preserved ones of Israel;

I will also make You a light of the nations

So that My salvation may reach to the end of the earth." Isaiah 49:5-6 (NASB)

... Yet Do Everything In Their Power To Deny Israel Her Loving Messiah

Worship the LORD with reverence

And rejoice with trembling.

Do homage to the Son, that He not become angry, and you perish in the way,

For His wrath may soon be kindled.

How blessed are all who take refuge in Him! Psalms 2:11-12

... While Believing Jew And Gentile Alike Know Who These Two Are

It came about when the sun had set, that it was very dark, and behold, there appeared a smoking oven and a flaming torch which passed between these pieces. On that day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, "To your descendants I have given this land, From the river of Egypt as far as the great river, the river Euphrates: Genesis 15:17-18

... And Rejoice To See The Day

"I will pour out on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the Spirit of grace and of supplication, so that they will look on Me whom they have pierced; and they will mourn for Him, as one mourns for an only son, and they will weep bitterly over Him like the bitter weeping over a firstborn.

"In that day there will be great mourning in Jerusalem, like the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the plain of Megiddo.

"The land will mourn, every family by itself; the family of the house of David by itself and their wives by themselves; the family of the house of Nathan by itself and their wives by themselves;

the family of the house of Levi by itself and their wives by themselves; the family of the Shimeites by itself and their wives by themselves;

all the families that remain, every family by itself and their wives by themselves. Zechariah 12:10-14

... Peace Returns To His Zion