Gabrielle Giffords

[paige!]

Well, does he/she/it have to be known BEFORE the head wound? Does it say that somewhere? I just ask because she's gotten a LOT of attention, sympathy, respect, advocates, etc. and she's in a position of political power.

Anywho, thanks for humoring me. I don't genuinely think she IS, but I want to hear all sides.

[nebula]

If the heads of the beast are nations, then it would be a nation that suffered a fatal wound and was resurrected, not an individual person.

[Matthitjah]

If the heads of the beast are nations, then it would be a nation that suffered a fatal wound and was resurrected, not an individual person.

Bingo! Give that gurl a Kewpie Doll!

[Guest]

Well the 'beast' is always referred to with masculine pronouns; but who knows? Maybe they'll surreptitiously give her a sex change operation while she's in there...............

Leonard, are the masculine pronouns from the original languages or English translators???

I don't have a Greek text handy at this moment, but I checked several versions in English and each uses the masculine. I have to think that not all of them could have been wrong....

Anybody got a Nestle's Greek text handy?

Greek New Testament

[nebula]

Anybody got a Nestle's Greek text handy?

There's a chocolate Bible out there?!

[Bible2]

paige! said:

My question is, in light of the "birth pains" we seem to be experiencing in the world, does anyone have any thoughts as to how she might tie into Revelation 13:3?

Regarding the beast of Revelation 13:1-3, Gabrielle Giffords may not be "one of his heads" (Revelation 13:3), for his seven heads could represent seven past empires (Revelation 17:9-10): Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, Rome and (possibly) Islam. The first five had fallen by the time of John the Apostle: "five are fallen" (Revelation 17:10). The sixth (Rome) existed at the time of John: "one is" (Revelation 17:10). The seventh (possibly Islam) had not come by the time of John: "the other is not yet come" (Revelation 17:10). The future empire of the Antichrist will be an eighth head: "he is the eighth" (Revelation 17:11).

The empire of the Antichrist will be a revival of one of the five empires which had fallen by the time of John the apostle in the first century (Revelation 17:8,10-11). It could be a revival of the empire of Babylon. The Antichrist may claim falsely to be Nebuchadnezzar (the human king of ancient Babylon) returned, and so reinstitute the system that Nebuchadnezzar set up whereby everyone had to worship an image or be killed (Daniel 3, Revelation 13:15).

While the original Greek of Revelation refers to a neuter-noun "beast" (Revelation 13) and usually uses a neuter-pronoun "it" to refer to it (Revelation 13), the original Greek of Revelation also uses a masculine-pronoun "he" to refer to it (Revelation 13:8) when Revelation is referring to the individual "man" (Revelation 13:18) aspect of the beast, commonly called the Antichrist, the "man of sin" (2 Thessalonians 2:3) who will sit in a third Jewish temple and proclaim himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36) and who will be worshipped by the whole world (Revelation 13:8).

Gabrielle Giffords isn't the Antichrist, because the gematrial number of the name of the Antichrist is 666 (Revelation 13:17b-18), while the gematrial number of the name Gabrielle Dee Giffords is 475:

G=7

A=1

B=2

R=90

I=9

E=5

L=30

L=30

E=5

D=4

E=5

E=5

G=7

I=9

F=6

F=6

O=60

R=90

D=4

S=100

Total = 475

Also, Gabrielle Giffords isn't the Antichrist because the Antichrist (the little horn) will come from a country the territory of which used to be part of one of the four Diadochian Greek kingdoms which succeeded the Greek Empire of Alexander the Great (Daniel 8:8-9,21-25). These four kingdoms stretched from Greece over to Iran, and down into Egypt. So the Antichrist will probably come from the Middle East. He could be an Arab who will come from Lebanon, from the modern city of Tyre (Ezekiel 28:2, cf. 2 Thessalonians 2:4), and have a name like (for example) "Nabil Abdullah Falakal al-Hakim", the gematrial number of which is 666.

If Revelation 13:3,14b has a dual application to both a past empire and to the Antichrist, then he could receive a head wound which will kill him. He could then be resuscitated back to life, but his facial and bodily appearance could remain permanently marred, and he may never be able to speak clearly again (like someone after a bad stroke), so that he won't want to ever appear or speak in public again. The False Prophet of the Antichrist could then assign the world's best roboticists and computer programmers to design and make a lifelike humanoid robot that appears to be alive and speaks (Revelation 13:15) and looks just like the Antichrist did before his head wound, so that the robot will from then on be the public stand-in for the wounded Antichrist.

[paige!]

paige! said:

My question is, in light of the "birth pains" we seem to be experiencing in the world, does anyone have any thoughts as to how she might tie into Revelation 13:3?

Regarding the beast of Revelation 13:1-3, Gabrielle Giffords may not be "one of his heads" (Revelation 13:3), for his seven heads could represent seven past empires (Revelation 17:9-10): Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, Rome and (possibly) Islam. The first five had fallen by the time of John the Apostle: "five are fallen" (Revelation 17:10). The sixth (Rome) existed at the time of John: "one is" (Revelation 17:10). The seventh (possibly Islam) had not come by the time of John: "the other is not yet come" (Revelation 17:10). The future empire of the Antichrist will be an eighth head: "he is the eighth" (Revelation 17:11).

The empire of the Antichrist will be a revival of one of the five empires which had fallen by the time of John the apostle in the first century (Revelation 17:8,10-11). It could be a revival of the empire of Babylon. The Antichrist may claim falsely to be Nebuchadnezzar (the human king of ancient Babylon) returned, and so reinstitute the system that Nebuchadnezzar set up whereby everyone had to worship an image or be killed (Daniel 3, Revelation 13:15).

While the original Greek of Revelation refers to a neuter-noun "beast" (Revelation 13) and usually uses a neuter-pronoun "it" to refer to it (Revelation 13), the original Greek of Revelation also uses a masculine-pronoun "he" to refer to it (Revelation 13:8) when Revelation is referring to the individual "man" (Revelation 13:18) aspect of the beast, commonly called the Antichrist, the "man of sin" (2 Thessalonians 2:3) who will sit in a third Jewish temple and proclaim himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36) and who will be worshipped by the whole world (Revelation 13:8).

Gabrielle Giffords isn't the Antichrist, because the gematrial number of the name of the Antichrist is 666 (Revelation 13:17b-18), while the gematrial number of the name Gabrielle Dee Giffords is 475:

G=7

A=1

B=2

R=90

I=9

E=5

L=30

L=30

E=5

D=4

E=5

E=5

G=7

I=9

F=6

F=6

O=60

R=90

D=4

S=100

Total = 475

Also, Gabrielle Giffords isn't the Antichrist because the Antichrist (the little horn) will come from a country the territory of which used to be part of one of the four Diadochian Greek kingdoms which succeeded the Greek Empire of Alexander the Great (Daniel 8:8-9,21-25). These four kingdoms stretched from Greece over to Iran, and down into Egypt. So the Antichrist will probably come from the Middle East. He could be an Arab who will come from Lebanon, from the modern city of Tyre (Ezekiel 28:2, cf. 2 Thessalonians 2:4), and have a name like (for example) "Nabil Abdullah Falakal al-Hakim", the gematrial number of which is 666.

If Revelation 13:3,14b has a dual application to both a past empire and to the Antichrist, then he could receive a head wound which will kill him. He could then be resuscitated back to life, but his facial and bodily appearance could remain permanently marred, and he may never be able to speak clearly again (like someone after a bad stroke), so that he won't want to ever appear or speak in public again. The False Prophet of the Antichrist could then assign the world's best roboticists and computer programmers to design and make a lifelike humanoid robot that appears to be alive and speaks (Revelation 13:15) and looks just like the Antichrist did before his head wound, so that the robot will from then on be the public stand-in for the wounded Antichrist.

WOW. Fascinating. Thanks!

[Bold Believer]

1. The Beast is a nation.

2. The nation was Rome.

3. Rome was personified by her emperors, most notably, Nero.

4. The sixth emperor was Nero, a perverse pig of a man whose crimes included homosexual pedophilia, aborticide,arson and murder.

5. Nero's name added up to 666 in Hebrew gematria, the alpha-numeric system of the day. Furthermore, his name adds up to 616 in Greek gemetria, which causes some Bibles to have a footnote reading "some MSS read 616". Either is technically correct.

6. Nero persecuted Christians for a period of 42 months and almost succeeded in wiping out the Church.

7. Nero had a partner in the persecution: The Jewish authorities (Sanhedrin). They gave their authority over Israel to Rome. The priests had the authority to call down fire from heaven (offer sacrifices), God calls them 'the False Prophet.'

8. Nero demanded worship of himself alone. (Other emperors were accorded 'godhood' but Nero was the one who demanded worship.)

9. Nero died of a head wound, attempting suicide by running a sword through his throat; he had his secretary finish the job. His death nearly brought the empire down, resulting in civil war.

10. Nero's ascension to the Roman emperorship was marked by three people killed off to allow him to become emperor.

11. Nero spoke blasphemies, claiming to be God over all Gods.

Nero fits the prophecies, ALL of the prophecies. He IS the man-beast of Revelation. Look no further. Nero is NOT 'the antichrist.' There is no singular antichrist; only multiple antichrists. Gnostic/Docetic teachers who said that Jesus was not a man but a spirit.

[other one]

Humm, can't go along with all that.Believer.

Just to register a protest of that part of Rev relating to Nero. It says that they called fire down out of Heaven, and I've never read anywhere in history that this has happened. and I don't recall ever seeing any place where nero had all the people put a mark in thier hands of forheads, and the mark in revelation is a mark or scratch.

i also don't remember seeing or reading aobut any kind of image that was given the power to speak.

While there are a few things that could be aligned with some of nero's doings, not all can be and I would have to think that there is more to it than nero.

There are also a large number of us that don't believe that Revelation was written until the mid to late 90's.

I would guess one would pick the dates that went along with one's beliefs.

[Bible2]

Bold Believer said:

1. The Beast is a nation.

One aspect of the beast is an empire. For, as was pointed out earlier, the seven heads of the beast in its Antichrist's-empire aspect (Revelation 13:1, Revelation 17:3) represent seven past empires (Revelation 17:9-10): Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, Rome and (possibly) Islam. The first five had fallen by the time of John the Apostle: "five are fallen" (Revelation 17:10). The sixth (Rome) existed at the time of John: "one is" (Revelation 17:10). The seventh (possibly Islam) had not come by the time of John: "the other is not yet come" (Revelation 17:10). The future empire of the Antichrist will be an eighth head: "he is the eighth" (Revelation 17:11).

The empire of the Antichrist will be a revival of one of the five empires which had fallen by the time of John the apostle in the first century (Revelation 17:8,10-11). It could be a revival of the empire of Babylon. The Antichrist may claim falsely to be Nebuchadnezzar (the human king of ancient Babylon) returned, and so reinstitute the system that Nebuchadnezzar set up whereby everyone had to worship an image or be killed (Daniel 3, Revelation 13:15).

And the Antichrist could make his world capital in the rebuilt city of Babylon (in Iraq), and build a main temple to himself (and Lucifer/Satan) there. For a temple to "wickedness" will be built in Shinar (Babylonia) (Zechariah 5:8,11), and the Antichrist is called "that Wicked" (2 Thessalonians 2:8). The Antichrist may also claim falsely to be Nimrod, and Hammurabi, and Asoka, et al. For the Antichrist may claim falsely that he has had many different "past lives" as different human rulers.

The ten horns/kings of the Antichrist's empire (Revelation 13:1, Revelation 17:3,12) are the ten horns/kings in Daniel 7:7,24. In Daniel 7, the fourth beast, or fourth "king"/"kingdom" (Daniel 7:17,23), is the ancient Roman Empire. The ten horns/kings (Daniel 7:7,24) which come out of it could be the same as the ten horns/kings of the future empire of the Antichrist (Revelation 13:1, Revelation 17:3). These ten horns/kings could represent ten major endtime kingdoms/nations which came out of the former territory of the Roman Empire. The Roman Empire consisted not only of Western Europe, but also the Middle East and North Africa. So the ten major endtime nations which (at least in part) came out of the former territory of the Roman Empire could be Germany, the U.K., France, Italy, Spain, Turkey, Egypt, Iraq, Algeria, and Syria.

The ten toes of Daniel 2:42 could represent the same thing as the ten horns of Daniel 7:7, Revelation 13:1, and Revelation 17:3. Five of the toes could be of iron and the other five of clay. Germany, the U.K., France, Italy, and Spain could be the iron toes, and Turkey, Egypt, Iraq, Algeria, and Syria could be the clay toes. In Daniel 2:43, the inability of the iron to mix with the clay could represent how, for example, there are many Turkish people living in Germany, but they remain separated in Turkish ghettoes within German cities. Similarly, there are many Algerian people living in France, but they remain separated in Algerian ghettoes within French cities.

But even despite this social separation, which could endure indefinitely, the people of Western Europe on the one hand and the people of the Middle East and North Africa on the other could still one day put aside their political separation and become united into one massive confederation. The person who could succeed in bringing this about could be none other than the Antichrist.

The Antichrist (the little horn) will arise from a country which is "diverse" from the ten major nations (Daniel 7:24), and he will first gain control of three of them (Daniel 7:24). Subsequently, he will gain control over all ten of them, and could appoint kings over them (Revelation 17:12) who will be completely dedicated to him (Revelation 17:13).

The Antichrist arising as a "little" horn (Daniel 7:8, Daniel 8:9) could mean that he will arise from a little country. And the Antichrist arising "among" the ten major nations the territory of which used to be part of the Roman Empire (Daniel 7:8) could mean that the territory of his little country also used to be part of the Roman Empire. And before it was part of the Roman Empire, the territory of the Antichrist's country had also been part of one of the four Diadochian Greek kingdoms which succeeded the Greek Empire of Alexander the Great (Daniel 8:8-9,21-25). The territory of these four Greek kingdoms stretched from Greece over to Iran, and down into Egypt. So the Antichrist could come from the Middle East. He could be an Arab who will come from the little country of Lebanon, from the modern city of Tyre (Ezekiel 28:2, cf. 2 Thessalonians 2:4).

The Antichrist could start out by claiming to be a Baathist. He could first peacefully gain control of a Baathist confederation of three of the ten major nations (Daniel 7:24): Egypt ("toward the south" of Lebanon: Daniel 8:9), Iraq and Syria ("toward the east" of Lebanon: Daniel 8:9). This confederation could also include the minor nation of a United Palestine (i.e. a defeated Israel, "the pleasant land": Daniel 8:9). This Baathist confederation could be put together in the future by an Iraqi Baathist General who will manage to completely defeat and occupy Israel and Egypt in a war (in Daniel 11:15-17, the original Hebrew word translated as "daughter" is "bath"), but who will then mysteriously disappear (Daniel 11:19) shortly before the Antichrist arises on the world scene (Daniel 11:21-45).

Edited March 8, 2011 by Bible2