Mysticism Infiltrating the Church(es) ....

[enoob57]

Fraught - precisely the reason I want to get my opinion out there.

We have of late been shown videos in the Journeys series - Journeys is a five week video series designed to introduce Christianity to people in the 21st Century, presented by Rob Harley, a professional television journalist. He presents a unique blend of stories about faith, told by regular people whose lives have been impacted by God. The videos feature powerful interviews about spiritual encounters, and show how faith works at 'street level'. Published in 2003. I feel really ill at ease about them.

Why?

Did you not see my

I cannot get my head around/believe in 'near death experiences'. I have heard a lot of people have had them and nearly all have the same story. But there is one thing that feels wrong about them. The Journeys series seems to promote them.

John 10:1-6

10 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door, but climbs up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. 2 But he who enters by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. 3 To him the doorkeeper opens, and the sheep hear his voice; and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. 4 And when he brings out his own sheep, he goes before them; and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice. 5 Yet they will by no means follow a stranger, but will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers." 6 Jesus used this illustration, but they did not understand the things which He spoke to them.

NKJV

No one passes through the Door which is controlled by The Father as Christ Himself unless it is with His Blood upon them For He knows His Own Blood...

And We Know The Life Is In The Blood The last days this is true-> Signs and Wonders can be of God or a lie that deceives... only by examination by the light of His Word and Prayer can anything be determined... Love Steven

[princess2000]

I don't know if this applys but what about charismatic groups? Maybe it's just me but don't they sound a little, to borrow my best friend's term, squelchy. I mean the only thing I know about charismatic groups is what I learned from news coverage a few years ago and it seemed like the Catholic Church was unaffected, then I find out this year that my church has a charismatic group and they held a healing service at my church like a week or two ago. Again maybe it's just me but charismatic just seems wrong, to me it feels like they're going to compleatly break away from Faith Tradition which is a bad, bad, bad, bad, bad, bad, bad (repeat until you have to take a breath then repeat that 3 times) thing.

Thoughts?

Why do Charismatics seem wrong to you?

Are you Catholic? I know of some Charismatic Catholics. I was ministered to by one of them many years ago.

If by "Faith Tradition" you mean the tradition of the Catholic Church, would not that be all Protestants and interdenominationals and such, not just Charismatics?

I couldn't properly articulate why it feels wrong, it just does, like the creeper janitor at my school and our creeper neighbors who ended up being drug dealers. It also severly reminds me of an episode of Supernatural where Dean has a heart attack because of crazy amounts of electricity flowing through him and Sam takes him to this healer guy who's basicly running his own church and whose wife is controling a reaper (grim reaper). She kills someone else, someone she believes is leading a sinful life, whether it's being gay, having an affair, anything the news covers and she disagrees with, to save the person being healed.

Yes I'm Catholic, no, not all other denominations of Christianity feels squelchy to me, just Charismatics.

Peace and out

~Beka

[enoob57]

Brother Steven, Thanks for the post on gnosticism. Had no idea what they thought, not having taken time to research about them. They have some pretty perverted views from reading your post & would definitely be a danger to someone not following after the Holy Spirit. Did/Do they believe in the Bible at all? What do they say about Jesus?

The tactics were as today. They use enough of Scripture to produce an imagined reality as they being from God. they quickly leave it to proclaim their own uniqueness and worthiness to be worshipped... They usually will first be seen in the egotistic pronouncement of themselves... it is quite vomit invigorating! In all that is we, God's children, recognize the source as our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and it causes us to be in a state of worship to Him for all the glory we see in the works of His hands... They cannot come to this knowledge for they would have to give even themselves to that glory and they want to be gloried in!!!

Something I noticed, they taught that man was composed of spirit, soul, & body. I happen to believe that man is a triune being. But only because God is a triune being and He made us in His image. I believe the spirit part of us is dead (separated from God by sin) until we accept Jesus as our Savior and He makes it alive. I don't understand how anyone could think they have to go through a bunch of cosmic spheres or that knowledge helped accomplish that. Again, do they not believe the Bible? God's Word never mentions anything like that. The Word is clear that Jesus is the only way to obtain salvation.

Here is what I have been taught and accept through the witness of Scripture-> Body (physical makeup) -> Soul (mind, will, emotions) <- Spirit (dead or alive)

As for them thinking they are superior because of enlightenment they think they have. The scripture states plainly not to think more highly of ourselves than we should. We are many members of the same body & no one is above Jesus as He is the Head of the body. Romans 12:3-5

You see how your mind is being formed by God's Word and a foundation for which you reason as He reasons

We do need knowledge, but knowledge of the Word, because that is how we renew our mind.

This is the understanding of the regenerated "new birth" re-evaluate all things in the proper light of God's Word. Ps 119:105, Isa 8:20, 2 Peter 1:19

Love Steven

[Isaiah 6:8]

I don't know if this applys but what about charismatic groups? Maybe it's just me but don't they sound a little, to borrow my best friend's term, squelchy. I mean the only thing I know about charismatic groups is what I learned from news coverage a few years ago and it seemed like the Catholic Church was unaffected, then I find out this year that my church has a charismatic group and they held a healing service at my church like a week or two ago. Again maybe it's just me but charismatic just seems wrong, to me it feels like they're going to compleatly break away from Faith Tradition which is a bad, bad, bad, bad, bad, bad, bad (repeat until you have to take a breath then repeat that 3 times) thing.

Thoughts?

Why do Charismatics seem wrong to you?

Are you Catholic? I know of some Charismatic Catholics. I was ministered to by one of them many years ago.

If by "Faith Tradition" you mean the tradition of the Catholic Church, would not that be all Protestants and interdenominationals and such, not just Charismatics?

I couldn't properly articulate why it feels wrong, it just does, like the creeper janitor at my school and our creeper neighbors who ended up being drug dealers. It also severly reminds me of an episode of Supernatural where Dean has a heart attack because of crazy amounts of electricity flowing through him and Sam takes him to this healer guy who's basicly running his own church and whose wife is controling a reaper (grim reaper). She kills someone else, someone she believes is leading a sinful life, whether it's being gay, having an affair, anything the news covers and she disagrees with, to save the person being healed.

Yes I'm Catholic, no, not all other denominations of Christianity feels squelchy to me, just Charismatics.

Peace and out

~Beka

So only because of movies you have seen which mock Charismatics?

[nebula]

I couldn't properly articulate why it feels wrong, it just does, like the creeper janitor at my school and our creeper neighbors who ended up being drug dealers. It also severly reminds me of an episode of Supernatural where Dean has a heart attack because of crazy amounts of electricity flowing through him and Sam takes him to this healer guy who's basicly running his own church and whose wife is controling a reaper (grim reaper). She kills someone else, someone she believes is leading a sinful life, whether it's being gay, having an affair, anything the news covers and she disagrees with, to save the person being healed.

Yes I'm Catholic, no, not all other denominations of Christianity feels squelchy to me, just Charismatics.

I agree with Isaiah - please don't base your judgment against Charismatics on what you see through the media.

But I have to ask, do I creep you out?

[other one]

I couldn't properly articulate why it feels wrong, it just does, like the creeper janitor at my school and our creeper neighbors who ended up being drug dealers. It also severly reminds me of an episode of Supernatural where Dean has a heart attack because of crazy amounts of electricity flowing through him and Sam takes him to this healer guy who's basicly running his own church and whose wife is controling a reaper (grim reaper). She kills someone else, someone she believes is leading a sinful life, whether it's being gay, having an affair, anything the news covers and she disagrees with, to save the person being healed.

Yes I'm Catholic, no, not all other denominations of Christianity feels squelchy to me, just Charismatics.

I agree with Isaiah - please don't base your judgment against Charismatics on what you see through the media.

But I have to ask, do I creep you out?

Neb, I would be quite comfortable in your church meetings, but my wife would have trouble...... don't know if "creep" would be a good word, but she's very uncomfortable with people letting go.....

[nebula]

Neb, I would be quite comfortable in your church meetings, but my wife would have trouble...... don't know if "creep" would be a good word, but she's very uncomfortable with people letting go.....

Well, I was responding to Princess using her term.

But I can understand how counter-culture such things are and can thus be uncomfortable for a lot of people. But I hope that if we can accept people acting crazy to celebrate their favorite sports team (have you seen some football fans?) that we can accept people going nuts to celebrate Jesus. But that's just the worship part. And really, our worship isn't all that weird. Only a few actually dance. Only a few will fall to their knees or lie prostrate on the floor. Most people do no more than clap - if that.

The other stuff, the praying in tongues and prophesying, it actually isn't as disorderly as skeptics make out. And if people were not getting ministered to by the prophesying (not proclaiming the future but speaking to targeted issues of the heart and speaking the Lord's heart to the person), it would not continue. I myself have had emotional healing through prophetic words.

[princess2000]

I couldn't properly articulate why it feels wrong, it just does, like the creeper janitor at my school and our creeper neighbors who ended up being drug dealers. It also severly reminds me of an episode of Supernatural where Dean has a heart attack because of crazy amounts of electricity flowing through him and Sam takes him to this healer guy who's basicly running his own church and whose wife is controling a reaper (grim reaper). She kills someone else, someone she believes is leading a sinful life, whether it's being gay, having an affair, anything the news covers and she disagrees with, to save the person being healed.

Yes I'm Catholic, no, not all other denominations of Christianity feels squelchy to me, just Charismatics.

I agree with Isaiah - please don't base your judgment against Charismatics on what you see through the media.

But I have to ask, do I creep you out?

No, but most people on the internet don't, which is prolly really bad. Anyway, I'm just saying that's the vibe I get when I hear the word, my gut instinct says it's creepy and my gut instinct is hard to change, especially when it's been right so many times.

[nebula]

No, but most people on the internet don't, which is prolly really bad. Anyway, I'm just saying that's the vibe I get when I hear the word, my gut instinct says it's creepy and my gut instinct is hard to change, especially when it's been right so many times.

So what do you think of me, being a Charismatic?

[JohnD]

Christian Mysticism is not without its place in scripture.

1 Corinthians 15:3-4 (KJV)

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Most can easily turn to the Gospels to support this text. But in Paul's day, when he wrote the passage above, only the Old Testament was in existence. The same is true when this was written:

Acts 17:11 (KJV)

11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

If you eliminate mysticism altogether you are in for some interesting dilemmas providing the Old Testament proof texts Paul and Luke cited.

The Lord Jesus gave us the text (though there are more):

Matthew 12:39-40 (KJV)

39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:

40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale