Stanley Frodsham 1965 prophecy

[OneLight]

First, I don't believe God would do anything unwillingly, as stated in the OP's link to the so called prophecy. For those who don't believe in prophets operating today. how do you see the scripture below? Are you saying that 1 Corinthians 12-15 are null and void today.

1 Corinthians 12

Spiritual Gifts: Unity in Diversity

Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I do not want you to be ignorant: You know that you were Gentiles, carried away to these dumb idols, however you were led. Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit.

There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord. And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all. But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit, to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.

1 Corinthians 14:1 Pursue love, and desire spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy.

Prophets and apostles ended when the law was fulfilled with Christ. Men and women can prophesy today but that doesn't make them prophets. The gift of prophecy isn't the same as being a prophet.

Spiritual gifts are avaliable today to fill the gap if you will.

If you look at what was required from true OT prophets you'll see that nobody today adheres to the criteria anyway!

When you prophecy, you are a prophet. When you teach, you are a teacher. You stated that the "Prophets and apostles ended when the law was fulfilled with Christ." When Christ ascended, did the apostles stop being apostles?

[Guest borderline]

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[OneLight]

Listen to God and His words. Nowhere does it state that these two offices ceased. God may not of found anyone to fill them, but there is no where in scripture that tells us they are discontinued. Can you show me where you feel it does?

[Guest borderline]

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Edited July 16, 2012 by borderline

[goldust59]

When you prophecy, you are a prophet. When you teach, you are a teacher. You stated that the "Prophets and apostles ended when the law was fulfilled with Christ." When Christ ascended, did the apostles stop being apostles?

I haven't looked at this topic for years and should have explained better.

Nearly everyone I've discussed this with in the past including most Pentecostal's agree that there are no more prophets or apostles and to prophesy doesn't make one a prophet. The gift of prophecy is much different.

there are also prophets found in Acts 13:1 & Acts 15:32

I shouldn't have said that apostles and prophets ended with Christ fulfillment of the law. What I should have said is that there was no reason for apostles and prophets after the Word was written and the church established. Now we have the gift of prophecy.

Then what do you do with the scripture in Ephesians 4:10-13

He(Jesus) that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that He(Jesus) might fill all things. And He(Jesus) gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors & teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ; Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ:

Since this is saying Jesus gave these ministries, I don't see how this scripture is speaking of the OT prophets.

How do you explain Agabus?

Acts 21:10 - And as we stayed many days, a certain prophet named Agabus came down from Judea.

Sorry for the misunderstanding. I didn't mean to imply that there were only OT prophets. Only that they vanished after the church was established.

Some of the following is from Willian Barclay.

Eph 4 gives us a picture of the organization and administration of the early church. It gives us a list of the 'office' bearers in it at the time of Paul. Many of them were in a wandering ministry and went wherever the Spirit led them. And some stayed in their local ministry.

The apostles included more than the twelve. And to be an apostle there were two qualifications. An apostle must have seen Jesus and witnessed his resurrection.

That's why I say there are no more apostles.

The prophets were wanderers throughout the church. Their message wasn't the result of thought and study but the direct result of the Holy Spirit. They had no homes and no families and no means of support. If they took money they were not a true prophet. They went from church to church proclaiming the will of God as the Spirit told them.

The prophets before long vanished from the church. In times of persecution the prophets were the first to suffer and die for their faith. Their occupation was a dangerous one.

This is what William Barclay said.

The prophets became a problem. As the church grew the local organization developed. Each congregation began to grow into an organization which had it's own permanent minister and local administration. Before long the settled ministry began to resent the intrusion of these wandering prophets who often disturbed their congregations. The settled ministry always tends to resent the itinerant evangelist. The inevitable result was that bit by bit the prophets faded out, and the settled ministry was supreme.

The office of the prophet was singularly liable to abuse. These prophetic wanderers had a very considerable prestige. Some of them abused their office and made it an excuse for living a very comfortable life at the expense of the congregation whom they visited. The earliest book of church administration is the Didache, the teachings of the twelve apostles which dates back to just after A.D. 100. In it both the prestige and the suspicion of the prophets is clearly seen.....

It is laid down that a wandering prophet may stay one or two days with a congregation, but if he wishes to stay 3 days he is a false prophet....or if he demands money...he's a false prophet. There were days when the prophets were the real messengers of God to the church and it was so in the day of Paul. But the time came when these wandering prophets were an anachronism, (An anachronism is anything that is out of place in the time period it has been placed in) when some of them brought discredit on their office, and in the end vanished from the scene.

I should have explained more about this since I made it sound like there were no NT prophets. I apologize. Most christian's I know do agree that there are no more apostles or prophets. All the prophecies about Christ second coming have been made. The church is established and the Word is written.

And I don't know anybody who upholds the qualifications of a prophet and see no use for them now anyway since we have the gift of prophecy which is different than being a prophet.

That was a gracious reply borderline but I still have to ask, how do you interpret the scripture of Eph 4:10-13. Specifically the statement "til we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ" Looks to me like all the offices will be in play til this scripture is fulfilled.

[Guest borderline]

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Edited July 16, 2012 by borderline

[OneLight]

Listen to God and His words. Nowhere does it state that these two offices ceased. God may not of found anyone to fill them, but there is no where in scripture that tells us they are discontinued. Can you show me where you feel it does?

Wish I had time to reply on my own but here is a link to some of the scriptures you requested.

http://www.scionofzion.com/apostles.htm

That's the problem with just pointing to a site. From the site, it states that one has to of seen the risen Christ. Do you believe that nobody since Paul has seen Christ in His risen state? The site quotes scripture using the phrase "last of all" to ignore everyone who ever lived after the scripture was written. They may not have the same role as the first Apostles, but there is nothing in scripture telling us that the office doors are no locked.

Take the time to show the scripture to back your claim. The site only gives opinion on what they believed as they read scripture, like many many people through life have.

[Guest borderline]

;l

Edited July 16, 2012 by borderline

[OneLight]

Not a problem. I can wait until you get to your computer and files. I am curious for you to show me in scripture where the offices set up by God have ended. I don't really care about someones theology on this issue, but scripture.

[nebula]

If miracles no longer occur, how was my scoliosis healed as I was being prayed over for such?

And why have I heard several testimonies of food being multiplied?

Or have you heard of the Muslims who turned to Jesus after He appeared to them?