Stanley Frodsham 1965 prophecy

[Guest Butero]

I am sorry brother but I don't think we need the 'science of interpretation' to understand the scriptures. The Holy Spirit was given to us to lead us into truth & give us understanding. When we study the Word with the Holy Spirit as our teacher, we are less likely to be off target.

There's no science to interpretation. It really isn't that difficult to figure out. BUT! An acceptable method of understanding prophecy or doctrine isn't as simple as just reading the bible in English and praying for enlightenment. You'll seldom obtain the correct interpretation of scripture, esp. doctrine and prophecy, by doing just that. Studying to show ourselves approved unto God rightly dividing the Word of Truth goes far beyong just reading the bible in English and praying for the Spirits enlightenment. Common sense, simplicity, and being objective are some of the most basic virtues of a good hermeneutic. We all like to believe we have the truth and the Spirits enlightenment. But do we utilize the proper methods and do we utilize the tools that are necessary and avaliable to arrive at truthful conclusions?

Being subjective and adhering to your indoctrinations limits and hinders ones ability to understand the truth God's Prophetic Word. Nearly every Christian on this forum already has their mind made up. Their indoctrinations have formed their opinions and a bias that is difficult to overcome. I blame much of that bias on the high profile 'prophecy experts' and the rest of it on the Christian themselves.

Obtaining the correct interpretation of Prophecy requires more than just a casual reading of God's Word. And just as important, it requires an unbiased approach, a good hermeneutic, and a willingness to consider other views and change our mind!

There are three types of Christian's.

One type simply accepts what their church or pastor teaches and believes it no questions asked. Doctrine and prophecy isn't that important to them so they humbly accept what's taught or the status quo.

Another type of Christian may accept this status quo or may have formed their own opinions. But too often they don't question themselves or what they've latched onto. They form or accept certain doctrinal and prophetic beliefs (like pretribulationism and globalism) believing they have the truth, no longer question it, and refuse to even consider other views of prophecy. In other words they believe they already have this (esp. prophecy) all figured out.

Then there's the Christian who utilizes all the avaliable tools and means of bible interpretation. They continually search the scriptures for the truth regardless of where or how it may be found and regardless if it is or isn't in accord of what they already believe. They question everything and everyone and are willing to change the opinions they've already formed. They're aren't many of us in this catergory.

The first two types of Christian's above limit the Holy Spirits influence and the believers ability to understand the truth in God's Written Word. How can God reveal anything or enlighten a believer, if that believer casually reads the scriptures or thinks they already have the truth?

I really do want off of this forum. There are too many slanderous and judgemental wise cracks. People rather post derogatory remarks and argue rather than have a genuine sensible debate.

I've been reading this forum for several years. 5-6 years ago there was a good bunch of people here who knew how to debate. But it appears most of them have left the forum because of the slanderous, judgemental, argumentative types. Encountering those types does nothing for my Christian walk or talk.

Some people seldom have anything good to say!

I do want to conclude by saying that you and a few others have been very nice...thank God!

A lot of the views concerning end times events are based on Jesus' teachings in Matthew 24. Let's see what Christ taught. First came this question from his disciples in verse 3. And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of they coming and the end of the world?

4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

First thing to look for, people claiming to be the Messiah. This has been going on for a long time, so it is not a definitive sign by itself. It is still something to look out for.

6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

The second sign is wars and rumours of wars. Again, this has been taking place for a long time, and we are told that even when this takes place, the end is not yet.

7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in diverse places.

We have always had wars, famines, pestilences and earthquakes, so you would have to assume these things will happen at an increasing rate.

8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

At this point, we are just seeing signs that we are nearing the end. This is the time period I personally believe we are living in, "the beginning of sorrows."

9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

I tend to think this is speaking of the beginning of the tribulation period. Those who claim to be followers of Christ will be persecuted and killed. People will betray each other. There will be false prophets everywhere deceiving many. People will be more concerned with number one, rather than having love for one another. Only those that endure to the end will be saved. During this time period, the gospel of the kingdom will reach the entire world. If there is a pre-tribulation rapture, I believe it will have taken place between verses 8 and 9, and only those watching and waiting on Jesus' return will go, not the entire luke warm church. That is why there will still be Christians in the tribulation period. They will have to endure to the end in spite of all the threats to their well being to be saved.

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whosoreadeth, let him understand:)

16 Then let him which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes,

19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

The abomination of desolation spoken of in Daniel is the Anti-Christ setting himself up as the Messiah in the middle of the great tribulation period in the holy place, which is the temple. That is why we believe the temple will be re-built. This will be a time of great peril to the inhabitants of the earth, so naturally, it is not going to be a good time to have children.

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

25 Behold, I have told you before.

26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

Things will be so terrible, if God didn't shorten the days, everyone would be destroyed. There will be a lot of false prophets, that will have the power to work miracles. They will be so convincing, they would be able to deceive the elect, if it were possible. We are warned not to believe they are the real Christ.

27 For as the lightening cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

The return of Jesus is as certain as the rising of the sun in the east, and the setting of the sun in the west.

28 For whersoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

This is a reference to all those who will be killed at the battle of Armageddon.

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not giver her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken;

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Immediately after the great tribulation ends, Jesus will return and gather all the saints together.

32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is night:

33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

These signs are given to us as a warning of the Lord's immenent return. The generation that sees these things coming to pass will not pass away till all these things are fulfilled.

36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

We are made privy to signs of the Lord's soon return, but we are not given the day or the hour of his return. Only God the Father knows that information.

37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken and the other left.

42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

Conditions will be as they were before the flood. People will go about their business as usual, not suspecting judgment is soon to come. One reason I don't believe all professing Christians will go in the rapture is that only those who are watching the way they live will go in the rapture. The lukewarm will be left behind. Just as a thief is able to rob a home when the owner doesn't make sure it is secure, Jesus will come at a time when the lukewarm aren't watching, and they will be left behind.

45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household to give them eat in due season?

46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.

47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.

Those who are living right and looking for the Lord at his coming will be taken out before the tribulation period, and they will rule and reign with Christ.

48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;

49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;

50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of.

51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Those not ready for Jesus' return will be left behind to go into the great tribulation period. The majority will wind up taking the mark of the beast and thus, being destroyed. The next chapter in Matthew continues with more parables dealing with the same topic. If you take Jesus' words in conjunction with Daniel's prophecy and the book of Revelation, you come up with the teaching that there will be a one world government run by the anti-Christ, and a great tribulation period followed by the battle of Armageddon and the millenial reign of Christ.

Not everyone here will agree with what I said in several areas. Some deny the pre-tribulation rapture. I am not 100 percent certain about it, but I lean heavily that way. Some teach that all Christians, ready or not, will go in the rapture. I do not. Some don't even agree concerning the meaning of these parables. We don't walk in lock step with regard to Bible prophecy. If you wish to post your views of end time events, I will be glad to look at and consider them.

[Guest borderline]

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Edited July 16, 2012 by borderline

[Guest borderline]

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Edited July 16, 2012 by borderline

[Guest Butero]

Borderline, I don't claim to know who the end time players are, as you said. All anyone can do is make educated guesses. Often times, those guesses will be wrong. I really have no problem with you or anyone else thinking this through and taking a stab at figuring it out. Prophecies are the hardest things in the Word to figure out. They are not made clear to the point where the casual reader can figure them out. They are full of symbolism. I am sorry you have had bad experiences at other message boards because you came up with an interpretation of the end times outside of the main stream. You are not denying the scriptures. You just have your own view of what they mean. Others may want to fight with you about them, but I am always interested in differen't points of view.

[Guest borderline]

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Edited July 16, 2012 by borderline