Stanley Frodsham 1965 prophecy

[rollinTHUNDER]

For example. I ask rolling thunder to provide me with one verse of prophecy that supports the idea of a revived Roman Empire. He can't quote one verse that clearly supports the RRE, yet he still believes it regardless of the lack of scriptural evidence.

I don't remember you asking, but here, try this passage. It speaks of both, the past and future.

Daniel 7:23-25

"He gave me this explanation:

[nebula]

1) There are no apostles today because the apostles served as a foundation for the early church only. We should not expect to see apostles today any more than we should expect to see someone laying a building

[Guest borderline]

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[Guest borderline]

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[rollinTHUNDER]

For example. I ask rolling thunder to provide me with one verse of prophecy that supports the idea of a revived Roman Empire. He can't quote one verse that clearly supports the RRE, yet he still believes it regardless of the lack of scriptural evidence.

I don't remember you asking, but here, try this passage. It speaks of both, the past and future.

Daniel 7:23-25

"He gave me this explanation: ‘The fourth beast is a fourth kingdom that will appear on earth. It will be different from all the other kingdoms and will devour the whole earth, trampling it down and crushing it. 24 The ten horns are ten kings who will come from this kingdom. After them another king will arise, different from the earlier ones; he will subdue three kings. 25 He will speak against the Most High and oppress his holy people and try to change the set times and the laws. The holy people will be delivered into his hands for a time, times and half a time.

How do you pull Rome out of that verse?

1st beast = Babylon

2nd beast = Medes/Persians - notice the two arms

3rd beast = Greece

4th beast = Roman Empire/Holy Roman Empire - notice the two legs

The future two feet /w ten toes will have a connection to the legs, not the arms

[goldust59]

Not a problem. I can wait until you get to your computer and files. I am curious for you to show me in scripture where the offices set up by God have ended. I don't really care about someones theology on this issue, but scripture.

First of all quote me right. I only said the office of prophet and apostle has ended. Second of all. The scriptures have been quoted that you requested by Mr. Frye. If you can't see it, then believe what you like. I know what I believe and why I believe it. You have provided me with nothing to support your beliefs.

Every Baptist preacher I know believes there are no prophets or apostles today. Where I differ with them is that I believe that spiritual gifts are avaliable to us today.

Let me see "your files!" As of now your theory is completely baseless!

Brother borderline, I ask again, how do you explain the scripture in Ephesians 4:11-13 that clearly states that the ministries of apostle, prophet, evangelist, pastor, & teacher were put in place by Jesus to equip, edify, & bring the Body of Christ to maturity?

It doesn't matter to me if every person on the planet says there are no more apostles or prophets because we are to believe God over man. As of now, we have not reached the "measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ", & until we do we still have need of each of these ministries. I believe they are in operation today and they are not recognized or they are disregarded because many don't believe they are needed today.

I will say this about the Islam, Babylon issue: In the time of Jesus ministry on earth, the people that opposed Him most were the religious sects of the day, not the "false" religions. These people worshiped the true God Jehovah but were heavily legalistic, like the Catholics (& a lot of other groups for that matter). The religious sects of Jesus day are the ones that wanted Him dead.(Pharisees in John 11:53--'Then from that day forth they took counsel together for to put Him to death.' They also persecuted those that believed Jesus: John 9:22--'These words spake his parents, because they feared the Jews(Pharisees, see verses 13 & 15),for the Jews had agreed already , that if any man did confess that He(Jesus) was Christ, he should be put out of the synagogue. These are many more scriptures that bear this out.

I think that as the Body of Christ as a whole moves closer to maturity that more and more of the 'religious' people are going to persecute those that truly 'know' God. The scripture says in John16:2--"They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea the time comes that whosoever kills you will think that he does God (not allah) service.' Now before it is said that He was only speaking to His disciples of that time, let's look at the scriptures of Matthew 24:5 & 9 'For many shall come IN MY NAME(emphasis mine),saying I am Christ; and shall deceive many.' 9- 'Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and you shall be hated of all nations for My name's sake.' Mark 13:6 & 9-- (v6 repeats verse 5 of Matthew 24) v9--'But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues you shall be beaten: and you shall be brought before rulers & kings for My name's sake, for a testimony against them.'

Islam is a false religion & I think the devil uses it to take our focus off what he is doing 'in our own backyard'. We should be aware of it I agree, but our main focus should be on what is happening within the church. We should be praying for & edifying one another as we see the 'day' approaching. We need our focus on Jesus and His plans for us. While people are focusing on Islam, satan is infiltrating the churches more & more.

Be blessed, Deb

bumped......to get answer to question about Eph. 4:11-13

[Guest borderline]

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Edited July 16, 2012 by borderline

[rollinTHUNDER]

Rolling thunder,

I said,

How do you pull Rome out of that verse?

You said,

1st beast = Babylon

2nd beast = Medes/Persians - notice the two arms

3rd beast = Greece

4th beast = Roman Empire/Holy Roman Empire - notice the two legs

The future two feet /w ten toes will have a connection to the legs, not the arms

Explain to me how the word mixed in Daniel 2 which describes the iron and clay can mean a Roman when the word is 'arab' and denotes an Arabian or Arabia?

Daniel 2 and Daniel 7 are two different prophecies.

Daniel 7:1 　

[Guest borderline]

er

Edited July 16, 2012 by borderline

[goldust59]

bumped......to get answer to question about Eph. 4:11-13

Ephesians gives us a picture of the organization and administration of the early church. We have a list of office bearers at the time of Paul.

The apostles were those whose authority ran throughtout the church and they included more than the twelve. (Acts 14; 4, 17)

An apostle must have either seen Jesus or been hand picked by Jesus.

Paul said, "Am I not an apostle? Have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord?" (1 Cor 9:1)

Second. An apostle had to be a witness of the resurrection of Christ. When the eleven met to discuss who would be the successor to Judas, the qualification of the successor was that he must be one of those who had companied with them throughout the earthly life of Jesus, and that he must be ordained to be a witness to the Resurrection. (Acts 1: 21-22)

So in a sense the apostles were bound to die out.

Prophets were wanderers throughout the church. They had no homes and no families and no means of support. (In the OT if a prophet asked for money he was considered a false prophet). They went from church to church proclaiming the will of God as God had told it to them. Before long the prophets vanished from the scene. In times of persecution prophets were the first to suffer and die for the faith. They had a dangerous occupation and had no means of concealment.

The prophets became a problem. As the Church grew and the local organization developed and as each congregation had it's own permanent minister they began to resent the intrusion of these wandering prophets who often disturbed their congregations. The inevitable result was that bit by bit the prophets fadded out and the setteled ministeries was supreme.

The office of prophet was singularly liable to abuse. Some of them abused their office and made it an excuse for living a very comfortable life at the expense of the congregation whom they visited. The earliest book of church administration is the Didache, The teachings of the twelve apostles which dates back to just after A.D. 100. In it both the prestige and suspicion of the prophets is clearly seen. Orders for sacraments are given, prayers, instruction, etc.

A wandering prophet may stay one or two days with a congregation, but if he wishes to stay three days he is a false prophet. If any wandering prophet demanded money or even a meal, he was a false prophet. There were days when the prophets were the real messengers of God to the church and it was so in the days of Paul. But the time came when these wandering prophets were and anachronism, (no longer needed or useful) and when some of them brought discredit on their office, in the end they vanished from the scene.

a