The Theory of Evolution.

[Isaiah 6:8]

Lets see if I understand this right, some have said I don't belive it because I don't truly understand it. This is what I have been taught in school. I have also seen this all the time on the discovery channel. I have read things online and off stating the same things.

This is what I have heard, summed up in a nutshell.

Way back billions of years ago, Everything that has ever existed already existed in the form of matter and or energy.

For some unknown reason, something caused everything to pull together, into basically a super singularity, (black hole) which compressed everything until, a massive explosion happened, creating all the building blocks of the universe we know know.

As things cooled, debris pulled together to start forming stars and planets, and due to the help of gravity star systems.

This took an untold amount of time, in the millions or billions of years.

By chance in a solar system, in a galaxy known as the milky way a planetoid hit a planet, knocking off a segment of said planet which was kept from flying out into space, and this chuck turned into the planets moon. This moon helped to pull the axis of the planet to 23.45 degree tilt. This kept the planet spinning and prevented it from becoming tidally locked. (Tidally locked is one side of the planet always facing the sun)

Also this new planet had a large amount of iron in its crust, which being heaver sunk down to the core, creating a magnetic field that was to shield this plant from cosmic radiation.

This planet also settled into an orbit approximately 93 million miles away from the star we call the sun.

These two things were very lucky for this planet, called earth, as these created conditions that were perfect for the upcoming formation of life.

Now either by comet/asteroid impacts, and or the cooling of the planet, no one knows for sure water started to gather on the surface of the planet.

At the same time due to similar processes the earth's atmosphere was formed.

Now the stage was set. The earth was the perfect distance from the sun to form life, as well as shielded from radiation by the magnetic field, and due to the spin, there was a mostly even distribution of solar heat energy around the planet. All these were lucky for the Earth as they provided the perfect conditions for life.

Now over time many chemical compounds floated around in the ocean, and by pure chance, over millions of years some amino acids were formed. These again, over time and by luck slowly formed into basic single cell life forms.

These over time, over millions of years started to form groups, these groups started to become mulch-cellular life forms. These life forms continued to evolve little by little to form the life in the sea. Also somehow when these were forming, they just so happened to evolve into male and female at the same time, allowing for sexual reproduction.

Also at this time basic plant life split off and evolved as well, for some unknown reason but it was a good thing as these provided the food needed for the animal life that was also evolving at the same time.

Over another several million years these animals decided that the water was not good enough and there fore slowly started to evolve feet, and air breathing lungs. Slowly to start to walk out on to the planets surface.

Also some how plants also started to evolve on the surface, perhaps by plants that got splashed ashore from the oceans.

From this process repeated itself hundreds of thousands if not millions of times over, over millions of years until we have the verity of life we have on the planet now.

So did I get this right?

[nebula]

Almost - cosmology isn't evolution. You'll get hammered for that.

One condition for life on Earth you forgot was the Moon itself. The effect of tides caused by the Moon's gravity are also essential for life on this planet.

More info on the Moon's role here and here

[Isaiah 6:8]

you have a point, but yet it is part of it. For evolution explains how life started but it requires cosmology to set the stage.

[MorningGlory]

Lets see if I understand this right, some have said I don't belive it because I don't truly understand it. This is what I have been taught in school. I have also seen this all the time on the discovery channel. I have read things online and off stating the same things.

This is what I have heard, summed up in a nutshell.

Way back billions of years ago, Everything that has ever existed already existed in the form of matter and or energy.

For some unknown reason, something caused everything to pull together, into basically a super singularity, (black hole) which compressed everything until, a massive explosion happened, creating all the building blocks of the universe we know know.

As things cooled, debris pulled together to start forming stars and planets, and due to the help of gravity star systems.

This took an untold amount of time, in the millions or billions of years.

By chance in a solar system, in a galaxy known as the milky way a planetoid hit a planet, knocking off a segment of said planet which was kept from flying out into space, and this chuck turned into the planets moon. This moon helped to pull the axis of the planet to 23.45 degree tilt. This kept the planet spinning and prevented it from becoming tidally locked. (Tidally locked is one side of the planet always facing the sun)

Also this new planet had a large amount of iron in its crust, which being heaver sunk down to the core, creating a magnetic field that was to shield this plant from cosmic radiation.

This planet also settled into an orbit approximately 93 million miles away from the star we call the sun.

These two things were very lucky for this planet, called earth, as these created conditions that were perfect for the upcoming formation of life.

Now either by comet/asteroid impacts, and or the cooling of the planet, no one knows for sure water started to gather on the surface of the planet.

At the same time due to similar processes the earth's atmosphere was formed.

Now the stage was set. The earth was the perfect distance from the sun to form life, as well as shielded from radiation by the magnetic field, and due to the spin, there was a mostly even distribution of solar heat energy around the planet. All these were lucky for the Earth as they provided the perfect conditions for life.

Now over time many chemical compounds floated around in the ocean, and by pure chance, over millions of years some amino acids were formed. These again, over time and by luck slowly formed into basic single cell life forms.

These over time, over millions of years started to form groups, these groups started to become mulch-cellular life forms. These life forms continued to evolve little by little to form the life in the sea. Also somehow when these were forming, they just so happened to evolve into male and female at the same time, allowing for sexual reproduction.

Also at this time basic plant life split off and evolved as well, for some unknown reason but it was a good thing as these provided the food needed for the animal life that was also evolving at the same time.

Over another several million years these animals decided that the water was not good enough and there fore slowly started to evolve feet, and air breathing lungs. Slowly to start to walk out on to the planets surface.

Also some how plants also started to evolve on the surface, perhaps by plants that got splashed ashore from the oceans.

From this process repeated itself hundreds of thousands if not millions of times over, over millions of years until we have the verity of life we have on the planet now.

So did I get this right?

Pretty much. Sure is a lot of luck and chance resulting in us sitting here at a computer discussing it....huh?

[Isaiah 6:8]

Without getting nitpicky, you sort of have some basic cosmology things right. I think you're putting too much emphasis on the Earth being "just right." The "Goldilocks" zone (area where we think a habitable planet would be found) is not as exclusive as you imply.

What you didn't do is talk about evolution much at all in your post. As Nebula noted, the theory of evolution is a biological theory. To understand evolution, you need to know about things like natural selection, genetics, and so on...

Wait.. I was keeping it simple. I did not want to rush into the natural selection and genetics etc... I avoided this on purpose as I have argued until I was blue in the face on this.

The basics are this. You can not have evolution with out the planets forming in the first place.

In other words did I get the basic's correct?

The earth is so far the only planet in the as you called it that is confirmed to be in the "Goldilocks" zone. You cannot have the biological theory with out a planet in the said zone. Yes there are a lot of planets that MAY be in that zone but not one of them is proven yet.

You see from all my school textbooks from my public school said that all of life formed from one single celled creature. That slowly evolved into all other types of life. This is the start. You cannot jump ahead, otherwise your saying that creatures just popped onto the earth and evolved from this point on.

If you do , then that would say that either aliens planted life or God did, and yes people do say this all the time. but then again where did the Aliens come from? Did they evolve... etc...

In other words did I get the basics correct?

[Isaiah 6:8]

so over all I got it right.

And how lucky for the sexes to co evolve at the same time to work perfectly.

[nebula]

Well, first thing to note (which Nebula started) is that you aren't talking about any one theory or model in science. There's different types of evolution (cosmological, stellar, chemical, biological etc.) and something that I've noticed many here have problems with is the concept that these different types of evolution aren't part of some grand evolutionary theory or model.

Most Christians see - God-caused vs. Remove-God. "Evolution" is the clumped term for "Remove-God".

So you can nit-picky all you want how it is expressed. The point is how did no cause, no designer, no plan, no purpose give rise to life on this planet?

The big bang theory is certainly a first step, however I think it is premature to talk about before the big bang in any certainty. Some thing to watch out for is the use of "explosion", it's a misconception. The big bang was a rapid expansion of space, not an explosion.

But was it or was it not violent at the beginning?

There are fairly precise time-lines for the cosmological evolution of the universe. I don't know the numbers off-hand, but I know it isn't something that's cloaked in mystery.

You just called it "evolution"?

"By chance" sounds superficial.

Then what would you call it? What if Earth didn't have the Moon? What if the Moon was not the 1/4 size of Earth that it is? Would it be possible for us to have life as we know it? Does the Moon assist in keeping our planet spinning as it does or not?

We know that the early solar system was very violent (that was when most of the creators happened), so it shouldn't be too surprising that large collisions have happened in the early solar system (I think that is the working model of Uranus being on its side). Tidally locked isn't one side always facing the Sun, but the Earth (in this case).

I think you meant "craters"?

But how would the Earth's spin be without the Moon?

I take issue with the fine-tuning connotation. For example, if you change a variable (lets say the distance to the Sun) you can change another variable (like the composition of the atmosphere) and life is still permissible.

Prove it!

I think it's salient to point out that many of the variables that apologists use aren't so finely-tuned requirements as they would have us believe. In addition, some things (like the magnetic field) is just how things work in the universe;

Please compare Earth's magnetism with that of the other planets in the Solar System, and then explain how Earth is not unique.

is it really that miraculous that the heaviest material just so happened to go towards the center while the lighter material concentrated on the surface?

Please compare Earth to Venus and Mars.

What I'm trying to get at is the idea of there can only be one set of perfect conditions for life is seriously flawed and many of the conditions are not as rare as many think (Mars has a 24-25 hour day and once had liquid water on the surface for example).

It takes more than water to have life.

And until life is discovered on Mars, your claim here doesn't fly.

Perhaps the greatest misconception in creationist circles is the randomness or "chance" involved in the formation and evolution of life. In essence everything is constrained by how the universe works; the "rules" of physics and chemistry "guide" the formation of life and help determine how, when and what properties these early precursors of life have.

But where do these rules come from? Why did they enable life to happen?

Cont.

[nebula]

Sexual reproduction goes back a long way (single celled organisms use it) and the formation of the two sexes happened fairly early on. Also male and female didn't evolve independently, they co-evolved.

One male's random genetic change just perfectly matches one female's genetic change, and these two happen to meet each other and reproduce, and somehow this change enabled them to reproduce more young than everyone else or outlive the rest - or something like that? And this is repeated over and over again?

Also at this time basic plant life split off and evolved as well, for some unknown reason but it was a good thing as these provided the food needed for the animal life that was also evolving at the same time.

Over another several million years these animals decided that the water was not good enough and there fore slowly started to evolve feet, and air breathing lungs. Slowly to start to walk out on to the planets surface.

Essentially there was a niche and plants found it and capitalized on it.

It wasn't about deciding, more about niches and relative fitness. In essence, there were new niches available and some organisms capitalized on it.

It sounds like you missed what Isaiah was saying.

[Isaiah 6:8]

The big bang theory is certainly a first step, however I think it is premature to talk about before the big bang in any certainty. Some thing to watch out for is the use of "explosion", it's a misconception. The big bang was a rapid expansion of space, not an explosion.

Um? First of Evolutionary minded scientist coined the phrase "Big Bang" Not my words. Second. what else is an explosion but a rapid expansion of material/gas. Now if there was no air to transmit the sound of the shock wave it may have been silent, no bang but you are way off here, pulling at straws, trying to redefine terms to fit your mindset, not the first time either.

There are fairly precise time-lines for the cosmological evolution of the universe. I don't know the numbers off-hand, but I know it isn't something that's cloaked in mystery.

Untold as in a long time. Untold as in there is no exact number, and even the number is made off a guess of amount of time it took for this to happen, as we have yet to observe it happening in any way that we can measure.

"By chance" sounds superficial. We know that the early solar system was very violent (that was when most of the creators happened), so it shouldn't be too surprising that large collisions have happened in the early solar system (I think that is the working model of Uranus being on its side). Tidally locked isn't one side always facing the Sun, but the Earth (in this case).

Doesn't it though? By chance. That is the whole concept. chance, and Luck, for the perfect things to come into play. Wow are we lucky to evolve by chance, as even with the models set down as fact, they require huge amounts of chance to work. They do not work otherwise.

Now the stage was set. The earth was the perfect distance from the sun to form life, as well as shielded from radiation by the magnetic field, and due to the spin, there was a mostly even distribution of solar heat energy around the planet. All these were lucky for the Earth as they provided the perfect conditions for life.

I take issue with the fine-tuning connotation. For example, if you change a variable (lets say the distance to the Sun) you can change another variable (like the composition of the atmosphere) and life is still permissible. I think it's salient to point out that many of the variables that apologists use aren't so finely-tuned requirements as they would have us believe. In addition, some things (like the magnetic field) is just how things work in the universe; is it really that miraculous that the heaviest material just so happened to go towards the center while the lighter material concentrated on the surface?

What I'm trying to get at is the idea of there can only be one set of perfect conditions for life is seriously flawed and many of the conditions are not as rare as many think (Mars has a 24-25 hour day and once had liquid water on the surface for example).

Well why not lead? Why not Gold. both are heaver then Iron. How about how lucky we are to have enough Iron to form the core? Prove the science of Fine tuning is wrong, please with corresponding data, that cannot be seen one way or another.

Also Some but not all. They have yet to find one planet that had all of the corresponding "goldilocks" zone requirements to form life. they have many that are close, but none with 100% match. So far only Earth is perfectly in the zone.

Now over time many chemical compounds floated around in the ocean, and by pure chance, over millions of years some amino acids were formed. These again, over time and by luck slowly formed into basic single cell life forms.

Perhaps the greatest misconception in creationist circles is the randomness or "chance" involved in the formation and evolution of life. In essence everything is constrained by how the universe works; the "rules" of physics and chemistry "guide" the formation of life and help determine how, when and what properties these early precursors of life have.

Wait. again the rules of chemistry are very precise. You still need all the right things to come together in the right quantities under perfect conditions for these to work. Scientists have made amino acids in the lab. But it took them years, and years of study to find the right conditions and they still have not created life from only organic compounds. You see, if scientists cannot replicate the conditions in a lab while trying to, then how lucky were the perfect conditions for the laws of science to take place in the first place! If they do create life in the lab from all they have proven is that it takes intelligence to create life.

So again its all by luck and chance no matter how you try to paint it.

Sexual reproduction goes back a long way (single celled organisms use it) and the formation of the two sexes happened fairly early on. Also male and female didn't evolve independently, they co-evolved.

How Lucky for this to happen!

Also unless I am way lax in my understanding of science how do you get sexual reproduction from a cell division? Everywhere I looked had single Cell organisms using Asexual reproduction.

Essentially there was a niche and plants found it and capitalized on it.

It wasn't about deciding, more about niches and relative fitness. In essence, there were new niches available and some organisms capitalized on it.

Again you missed my point, you are jumping ahead again. I am talking about before niches etc... the basics. Again, how lucky it was for plants to evolve alongside animals to provide energy taken from the sun to feed them with.

Again Luck, Chance, Accident.

[Isaiah 6:8]

The big bang theory is certainly a first step, however I think it is premature to talk about before the big bang in any certainty. Some thing to watch out for is the use of "explosion", it's a misconception. The big bang was a rapid expansion of space, not an explosion.

Um? First of Evolutionary minded scientist coined the phrase "Big Bang" Not my words. Second. what else is an explosion but a rapid expansion of material/gas. Now if there was no air to transmit the sound of the shock wave it may have been silent, no bang but you are way off here, pulling at straws, trying to redefine terms to fit your mindset, not the first time either.

When our universe initially expanded, it was space itself that expanded (and keeps expanding, btw). The material within space was taken along for the ride, so to speak. It was not an explosion.

In general Isaiah, D9 is not trying to redefine terms, but is nudging you into thinking about cosmology, and other sciences, in a slightly more precise manner.

Well a continuing expansion is just fine.

He has redefined terms on me more then once. An initial high speed expansion could also be defined as an explosion, and every science show, every article I have read speaks of such an explosion. Also there had to be an enormous amount of heat generated for the sub atomic matter to recombine into the matter we know know, this heat was generated by an explosion.

But again, why did he even have to try to disprove a point made by others who tout evolution, and the cosmological evolution of the universe sans God? Creationist don't care if it was a bang, or expansion, this is irrelevant to our world. Only those that belive in the creation of everything with out god need to argue about this.