A challenge for the Athiests

[nebula]

Here is my challenge:

Present a convincing argument for how the re-establishment of the nation of Israel is not a fulfillment of Biblical prophecy.

[nebula]

Here is my challenge:

Present a convincing argument for how the re-establishment of the nation of Israel is not a fulfillment of Biblical prophecy.

I like challenges

Are you referring to Ezekiel : 37?

That is one of the prophecies. But there are more.

I know not everyone agrees that Ez. 37 refers to such, so if your premise is to prove that the words written do not refer to such, you will need to do the same for all the prophecies concerning this.

Just so you know.

[nebula]

I agree, but if all these prophecies are variations of a certain subject, then it is likely that they all hit a certain aspect of it.

Is there one that clearly represents the current status of the Israel nation?

Off the top of my head, I believe there is more than one that brush on it.

But the ball is in your court to seek out the answers.

[nebula]

Let us then analyze Ez. 37:22-23:

I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel. There will be one king over all of them and they will never again be two nations or be divided into two kingdoms. 23 They will no longer defile themselves with their idols and vile images or with any of their offenses, for I will save them from all their sinful backsliding, and I will cleanse them. They will be my people, and I will be their God.

I have a couple of objections here:

1) Israel is not a monarchy, therefore it is not under one king

Your answer shows a lack of understanding prophetic time scales. God can lump 10, 20, 50, 100, 1000 years into one "time".

Again, you have to look at all prophecies to see the big picture.

2) According to the inter religious coordinating council of Israel , 31% of Israelis do not believe in God, with an additional 6% choosing 'don't know,' for a total of 37% being atheist or agnostic. If we add a 20% of Muslims being legal citizens, we land with a minority that believes in the God of the Bible. Not to speak of the fact that most of this minority never recognized Jesus as their Savior. Hardly a nation under one (Christian) God.

You have to read Zechariah for the answer.

You will reply that Ez.37 is controversial, but why? If the Bible is inerrant, we have to conclude that Ez.37 is inerrant, too.

"Innerent" doesn't mean we all agree on what it means.

The only logical conclusion is that the current state of Israel is not (yet) a fulfillment of prophecies.

Based on one snipped passage?

[nebula]

I assumed that snipped passages are also valid. And where do I get the answers from Zechariah (I do not know all the Bible by heart).

If you were in a debate class and given a topic to debate, would you take one quote, base your entire argument and conclusion on it, and think you would obtain an A?

And would your teacher be required to give you the resources?

Really, if you need help, research! It isn't that hard to Google a few terms and find the Scriptures and the debates and everything else you need to form your own argument.

[nebula]

Hi Nebula,

maybe it is my mathematical education. If you have a beig theorem consisting of several parts (corollaries, lemmas, etc),

it is enough to find an error in one of the parts to invalidate the whole. Invalidate does not mean that the conclusion is

not true, it means that it cannot be proven with the set of said steps.

The biggest mistake in theology is to build a case off of one quote. You have to place the quote in context to the passage as well as with the rest of Scripture.

(This, by the way, is where you went wrong with the Old Testament. You failed to see the Big Picture.)

But did you not say you enjoy challenges? Well, here is a challenge that will stretch you.

You know the anti-God, anti-Bible arguments quite well (you've been arguing the exact points the rest of them do), so obviously you do know how to research, since you've learned from the atheists.

It should not be that difficult for you to research this argument, should it not?

Or are you afraid to dig around the Bible and theologians?

[silviawang]

I had argued for this with the unbeliever ,they said that ,bcs the strong nations, like British,USA…….are all rule under the Christian faith, so these strong powers supported the Israel and tried to make the prophecy fulfilled-----that the human’s power under the religion, not GOD’s authority to perform the miracle. --------I hope someone know the history well give me a rational answer.

[Jayyycuuup]

Nebula maybe it would make more sense for you to state your case that the Nation of Israel is a fulfillment of prophecy and then we engage in further discourse.

Just as a side note, this doesn't seem like a very impressive piece of prophecy even if it's true. When someone says X will happen in the future, that's not all that impressive when you have thousands of years to work with. I mean a lot happens in 500 years let alone a thousand or more. Now, if you state the year, month or day that something will happen and it's something that isn't likely to occur then that's impressive.

Hello Stargaze

Nebula started this topic to put atheist on the "defensive" We Christians are allways the ones who have to prove prophecy, so now it your turn to try and disprove what the bible tells us.

~Have Fun~

[Jayyycuuup]

Nebula started this topic to put atheist on the "defensive" We Christians are allways the ones who have to prove prophecy, so now it your turn to try and disprove what the bible tells us.

~Have Fun~

That's how it works amigo. You make the claim and the claim is extraordinary...it's not my job to prove you wrong, it's YOUR job to prove what you're asserting. This is logic 101 and I'm frankly shocked at how few people grasp this.

The fact of the matter is that you so readily throw away the idea of a creator, but cannot dissprove his existance nor claim how things came to be.....because only through God will you understand this. "Logic," tells me that we have a creator because things dont just spring into existance, or get thrown together in an absolute exactness. Also, putting someone on the defensive allows you to put your head in the sand. You assert the pressure but fall apart when the same thing is asked of you... Is it really that hard?? Prove that your right.....make us "mislead" Christians look like fools. The only thing that is stopping you is that you cannot do such a thing, for one you cannot prove there is no such thing as a creator and two, your reason for being here is to find God. Your searching for someone to prove that God exists and that there is life after death because if your wrong you will suffer the ultimate consequence, eternal damnation. But all we can do is supply scripture and try to lead you to God, the rest of your "fate" is in your hands. Do with it as you willl I hope and pray that you will see the light at the end of the tunnel.

Blessings~