Methodist Church: Homosexuality is a Gift, Not a Sin

[Guest Butero]

If your point JohnDB is to tell us there are other sins in the church besides homosexuality, I agree. If your point is to say that those who are not perfect are not qualified to take a position against sin, I disagree. We are not talking about condemning a specific individual here. We are talking about whether or not homosexuality is a sin? There is no question it is. We are asking whether a church should call sin a gift? I would say absolutely not. Should a church call an overwhelming desire to steal a gift? Should a church call being a sex addict a gift and call on everyone to show tolerance towards adulterers?

[Smalcald]

People who have sex with someone of the same sex are fornicators or engaging in adultery, one of the two, it does not really matter if this particular sex act is spoken of in Scripture.

Christ clearly defined that marriage is only between a man and a women and ordained by God not by man, any sex outside of that context is always shown in scripture as sin, it's pretty simple really. We don't even need to get into these arcane debates about temple prostitutes etc or what exactly is the meaning in the new testament of effeminate etc.

It does not matter you cannot call having fornication a gift you cannot call wanting to commit fornication a gift. What does that say to the person who is struggling with this temptation and honestly wants to follow Christ in this matter? How does that help him or her to say hey its call cool sin away?

The true Church is the great hospital, Christ is the healer of death the ultimate Doctor, healing us of sin taking that sin onto Himself. So what would we think if we had a curable infection or a curable cancer and went to the hospital and they said, hey don't worry about it your cancer is a gift no need for healing here go enjoy your cancer.

[Guest man]

Christ clearly defined that marriage is only between a man and a women and ordained by God not by man, any sex outside of that context is always shown in scripture as sin, it's pretty simple really. We don't even need to get into these arcane debates about temple prostitutes etc or what exactly is the meaning in the new testament of effeminate etc.

It does not matter you cannot call having fornication a gift you cannot call wanting to commit fornication a gift. What does that say to the person who is struggling with this temptation and honestly wants to follow Christ in this matter?

Simple and to the point.

[~candice~]

If your point JohnDB is to tell us there are other sins in the church besides homosexuality, I agree. If your point is to say that those who are not perfect are not qualified to take a position against sin, I disagree. We are not talking about condemning a specific individual here. We are talking about whether or not homosexuality is a sin? There is no question it is. We are asking whether a church should call sin a gift? I would say absolutely not. Should a church call an overwhelming desire to steal a gift? Should a church call being a sex addict a gift and call on everyone to show tolerance towards adulterers?

Is 5:20

Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter.

Being a sinner does not mean I cannot point out what the bible dictates is sinful. Should we be silent? No

[Byron A]

Lets look first at context of the Leviticus passages. Lets start with Leviticus 18. From the beginning of the chapter, we see that the things in this chapter are against the practices of Egypt and the practices of Canaan. Since we know from history that neither of the two cultures allowed same sex relationships, we know that its not talking about same sex relationships. Rather, its referring to the ancient fertility rituals of the pagan Egyptians and Pagan Canaanites.

The more immediate context of Lev 18:22 is Lev 18:21-31. It begins with "And thou shalt not let any of thy seed pass through the fire to Molech, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the LORD." Clearly, the context shows that this prohibition is against cultic practices the worshippers of Molech used in their spring festivities.

Leviticus 20 begins with the prohibition against Molech, and afterwards goes into more detail of how he was worshiped. The rituals of Molech worship included sacrificing one's firstborn, incestuous sexual orgies, and same sex orgies.

What the Bible is addressing in these passages is the pagan rituals of Molech worship, not monogamous same-sex relationships.

Okay bed time! Work was crazy today. Good night everyone and God bless!

[~candice~]

I think you have taken it out of context. God is making an example of Egypt and Canaan, saying, don't do as they do. That much we agree upon. Then God goes further, saying, don't sleep with your sister, your mother in law, or anyone of the same gender. It is an elaboration of His decrees and design for marriage. It is calling for obedience to His laws, not just not acting like the heathens of Egypt and Canaan.

[Guest man]

Matthew 15

13 But He answered and said, Every plant which My heavenly Father has not planted will be uprooted.

14 Let them alone. They are blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind leads the blind, both will fall into a ditch.

[Smalcald]

Lets look first at context of the Leviticus passages. Lets start with Leviticus 18. From the beginning of the chapter, we see that the things in this chapter are against the practices of Egypt and the practices of Canaan. Since we know from history that neither of the two cultures allowed same sex relationships, we know that its not talking about same sex relationships. Rather, its referring to the ancient fertility rituals of the pagan Egyptians and Pagan Canaanites.

The more immediate context of Lev 18:22 is Lev 18:21-31. It begins with "And thou shalt not let any of thy seed pass through the fire to Molech, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the LORD." Clearly, the context shows that this prohibition is against cultic practices the worshippers of Molech used in their spring festivities.

Leviticus 20 begins with the prohibition against Molech, and afterwards goes into more detail of how he was worshiped. The rituals of Molech worship included sacrificing one's firstborn, incestuous sexual orgies, and same sex orgies.

What the Bible is addressing in these passages is the pagan rituals of Molech worship, not monogamous same-sex relationships.

Okay bed time! Work was crazy today. Good night everyone and God bless!

Byron

The problem though is fornication.

You also have to deal with Romans 1 which clearly identifies lust between two men or two women as sinful. Certainly orgies are sin as shown in Leviticus, but why? Is it the number of partners, maybe orgies are wrong if they only had a sex party that involved three partners, a threesome in modern language, would that be okay? The point of course is that any sex outside of marriage between a man and a women is sexual sin.

Homosexual deviant sex is certainly no worse than two heterosexuals who are not married having sex; from a scriptural standpoint both are fornication. I would also agree that sexual temptation is not sin but a temptation that must be overcome through the help of the Holy Spirit. St. Paul was tempted in many ways, yet he remained a celibate man and encouraged other Christians to follow his chaste life.

Simply embracing sexual sin because it is popular in culture is never something the Church can be a part of.

[~candice~]

You kick that thing around a lot. Time to join a soccer team?

[Guest man]

You kick that thing around a lot. Time to join a soccer team?

Soccer's for children and people who can't compete in real sports.