nebula Posted May 21, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted May 21, 2011 Considering the events of this past week, a lot of Christians have been wondering what will happen to them should the wrath of God strike our nation. The pastor at the prayer meeting tonight addressed this question and presented this answer which he believes came from the Lord. Ezekiel 9 1 Then He cried out in my hearing with a loud voice saying, "Draw near, O executioners of the city, each with his destroying weapon in his hand." 2 Behold, six men came from the direction of the upper gate which faces north, each with his shattering weapon in his hand ; and among them was a certain man clothed in linen with a writing case at his loins. And they went in and stood beside the bronze altar. 3 Then the glory of the God of Israel went up from the cherub on which it had been, to the threshold of the temple. And He called to the man clothed in linen at whose loins was the writing case. 4 The LORD said to him, "Go through the midst of the city, even through the midst of Jerusalem, and put a mark on the foreheads of the men who sigh and groan over all the abominations which are being committed in its midst." 5 But to the others He said in my hearing, "Go through the city after him and strike ; do not let your eye have pity and do not spare. 6 "Utterly slay old men, young men, maidens, little children, and women, but do not touch any man on whom is the mark ; and you shall start from My sanctuary." What this passage shows is that for those who grieve over the sins of the nation, the Lord's death angels will pass by them. But it should be noted that it does not say for those who got angry, nor for those who protested, but for those who "sigh and groan" (grieving, maybe even weeping) over the sins being committed. As I think about how we are reacting to Obama's declaration against Israel, yes we are angered, but are we grieving, are we interceding, are we crying out to God for mercy and for a change in our nation? At this point I can imagine some might think this is taking liberty with the passage, but I believe he was on the right track. The Lord listens to broken hearts, not fits of rage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted May 21, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.22 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted May 21, 2011 Considering the events of this past week, a lot of Christians have been wondering what will happen to them should the wrath of God strike our nation. The pastor at the prayer meeting tonight addressed this question and presented this answer which he believes came from the Lord. Ezekiel 9 1 Then He cried out in my hearing with a loud voice saying, "Draw near, O executioners of the city, each with his destroying weapon in his hand." 2 Behold, six men came from the direction of the upper gate which faces north, each with his shattering weapon in his hand ; and among them was a certain man clothed in linen with a writing case at his loins. And they went in and stood beside the bronze altar. 3 Then the glory of the God of Israel went up from the cherub on which it had been, to the threshold of the temple. And He called to the man clothed in linen at whose loins was the writing case. 4 The LORD said to him, "Go through the midst of the city, even through the midst of Jerusalem, and put a mark on the foreheads of the men who sigh and groan over all the abominations which are being committed in its midst." 5 But to the others He said in my hearing, "Go through the city after him and strike ; do not let your eye have pity and do not spare. 6 "Utterly slay old men, young men, maidens, little children, and women, but do not touch any man on whom is the mark ; and you shall start from My sanctuary." What this passage shows is that for those who grieve over the sins of the nation, the Lord's death angels will pass by them. But it should be noted that it does not say for those who got angry, nor for those who protested, but for those who "sigh and groan" (grieving, maybe even weeping) over the sins being committed. As I think about how we are reacting to Obama's declaration against Israel, yes we are angered, but are we grieving, are we interceding, are we crying out to God for mercy and for a change in our nation? At this point I can imagine some might think this is taking liberty with the passage, but I believe he was on the right track. The Lord listens to broken hearts, not fits of rage. I believe that "mark" is the Holy Spirit. Those who are His feel in their heart the grief you speak of. Though in another thread I foresee this nation rebelling against the leaders, it is the heart of the person that will be judged. We, humans, follow our heart when it comes down to not knowing what to do next. If you heart is with God, you will follow Him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 You could be right about that, but I wonder. We live in a fallen world and bad things do happen to good people. There are plenty of other stories in the OT where the righteous sometimes do suffer along with the rest of the nation. One example could be the Babylonian captivity. Scripture does not say, but I'm sure there must have been other righteous folks besides just Daniel and his friends and they would have suffered along with everyone else when the Israel fell. The Lord always keeps a remnant for Himself, but it may not mean we won't suffer along with the rest of the nation. Only the Lord knows for certain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~candice~ Posted May 21, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 955 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 11,318 Content Per Day: 1.89 Reputation: 448 Days Won: 33 Joined: 12/16/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted May 21, 2011 That's interesting Neb because I just finished reading 2 Peter. Check this out: 2Pe 2:5-10 5 And He did not spare the old world, but saved Noah the eighth one, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly. 6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, He condemned them with an overthrow, setting an example to men intending to live ungodly. 7 And He delivered righteous Lot, oppressed with the lustful behavior of the lawless. 8 For that righteous one living among them, in seeing and hearing, his righteous soul was tormented from day to day with their unlawful deeds. 9 The Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptation, and to reserve the unjust for a day of judgment, to be punished, 10 and especially those who walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise dominion. They are darers, self-pleasing; not trembling at glories, speaking evil. What is happening in this world today SHOULD torment us. I worry when I hear of Christians who are not groaning, not feeling tormented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted May 21, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Author Share Posted May 21, 2011 I believe that "mark" is the Holy Spirit. Those who are His feel in their heart the grief you speak of. ... I am a little puzzled. The passage says the mark was given to those who sigh and groan - that is the sighing and groaning come before they are marked. Plus the marking immediately precedes the destruction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted May 21, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Author Share Posted May 21, 2011 You could be right about that, but I wonder. We live in a fallen world and bad things do happen to good people. Right - after I shut down my computer last night, I recalled that I forgot to mention something else the pastor said. (Oh well, it was very late, and my body was trying to shut down.) Yes, there were righteous who suffered along with everyone else and even put to death. But when looking at the history of martyrs stories do emerge of how the Lord is with them through the suffering and through the death. A good example is the one man (I forget the name and circumstances) who was to be burned at the stake. The night before, he put his hand in a candle flame, trying to prepare himself for what was coming. But he could not endure the pain, and he cried out to God how he could endure what was coming the next day. The Lord spoke to his heart, "Today you have living grace, for today you are meant to live. Tomorrow, you will have dying grace." (The quote is probably not exact, but it was something like that.) The testimony given of those watching his death express that the man showed no evidence of pain as he flesh was being being burned and consumed. Does this answer your concern? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest man Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 But it should be noted that it does not say for those who got angry, nor for those who protested, but for those who "sigh and groan" (grieving, maybe even weeping) over the sins being committed. Sighing, groaning, grieving, does not necessarily indicate the absence of anger. As I think about how we are reacting to Obama's declaration against Israel, yes we are angered, but are we grieving, are we interceding, are we crying out to God for mercy and for a change in our nation? Maybe the Lord "is" answering the prayers of the righteous. Look at the end of verse 20. Maybe what we're seeing is the coals being poured out over this nation. Romans 12 17 Repay no one evil for evil. Have regard for good things in the sight of all men. 18 If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men. 19 Beloved, do not avenge yourselves, but rather give place to wrath; for it is written, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted May 21, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Author Share Posted May 21, 2011 Sighing, groaning, grieving, does not necessarily indicate the absence of anger. True, but I have seen evidence of people not getting past the anger stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mizzdy Posted May 21, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 173 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 3,911 Content Per Day: 0.66 Reputation: 212 Days Won: 10 Joined: 03/21/2008 Status: Offline Share Posted May 21, 2011 You could be right about that, but I wonder. We live in a fallen world and bad things do happen to good people. Right - after I shut down my computer last night, I recalled that I forgot to mention something else the pastor said. (Oh well, it was very late, and my body was trying to shut down.) Yes, there were righteous who suffered along with everyone else and even put to death. But when looking at the history of martyrs stories do emerge of how the Lord is with them through the suffering and through the death. A good example is the one man (I forget the name and circumstances) who was to be burned at the stake. The night before, he put his hand in a candle flame, trying to prepare himself for what was coming. But he could not endure the pain, and he cried out to God how he could endure what was coming the next day. The Lord spoke to his heart, "Today you have living grace, for today you are meant to live. Tomorrow, you will have dying grace." (The quote is probably not exact, but it was something like that.) The testimony given of those watching his death express that the man showed no evidence of pain as he flesh was being being burned and consumed. Does this answer your concern? Ever notice how when God told Noah to get all those animals and themselves into the ark they sat there another seven days before the waters came. Noah and his family endure much ridicule and suffering, I am thinking they groaned and sighed for those seven days about what was to come of them and the people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterH Posted May 21, 2011 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 196 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 11 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/22/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted May 21, 2011 The rain falls on the just and unjust alike. To live is Christ to die is gain. Do not worry what tomorrow will bring. If God judged this nation and I died I don't know if my neighbor is saved. And I should find that out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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