Elderly patients dying of thirst in U.K. hospitals

[winsomebulldog]

Elderly patients dying of thirst in U.K. hospitals

Elderly patients dying of thirst: Doctors forced to prescribe drinking water to keep the old alive, reveals devastating report on hospital care

Doctors are prescribing drinking water for neglected elderly patients to stop them dying of thirst in hospital.

The measure

[~candice~]

What on earth does nurse incompetence have to do with socialised health care? This is so bogus. Nurses have a duty of care for the patients they are responsible for, regardless of what system they are under.

But hey, never let the facts get in the way of a good story, right?

[winsomebulldog]

What on earth does nurse incompetence have to do with socialised health care? This is so bogus. Nurses have a duty of care for the patients they are responsible for, regardless of what system they are under.

But hey, never let the facts get in the way of a good story, right?

It isn't the mere fact that nurses failed to do their jobs. That happens all the time, everywhere. I've seen it first hand in hospitals here in the US. I've seen doctors fail to do their best job, as well. But the fact that it has happened in this particular instance at multiple hospitals in a nation where the government manages the health care system raises the question of whether or not it is a failing of the system instead of just a failing of the individual nurses involved.

Seriously, the times I've seen nurses fail at their jobs have been individual cases of one nurse here or there that didn't have the skill required to do the job, or didn't possess the character necessary to do the job well, or who was just plain too lazy to do the job. I've even seen it happen that a nurse was trying to care for too many patients and so neglected to meet all their needs as quickly or fully as she should have. But none of this is what this story indicates. This is entire departments, whole groups of nurses failing to do their job. This is multiple hospitals with patients who are being abused and ignored by one nurse after another. The question becomes, how can it be this bad in multiple locations unless the system itself has somehow failed? And that raises the issue of the validity of socialized health care.

[~candice~]

Well I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but this exact issue was highlighted in PRIVATE aged care facilities as well. So there goes the 'blame socialised medicine' excuse .

[Matthitjah]

The difference in the private model is that if your not getting the care that you feel is safe you can choose to place your loved ones in another facility. In Socialized medicine you take what is given. You have no choice.

In the private model if there is malpractice it is dealt with swiftly. Especially in a private hospital. Their reputation and money is on the line. They don't stand for that stuff. There are also systems and procedures in place to keep track of all care.

[~candice~]

The difference in the private model is that if your not getting the care that you feel is safe you can choose to place your loved ones in another facility. In Socialized medicine you take what is given. You have no choice.

In the private model if there is malpractice it is dealt with swiftly. Especially in a private hospital. Their reputation and money is on the line. They don't stand for that stuff. There are also systems and procedures in place to keep track of all care.

Hey bro you know I love you, but yadda yadda yadda blah blah blah .

It is absolute documented fact that abuse against the elderly is happening in private owned aged care facilities. And it is an ongoing problem, not a once off occurance. Obviously the market pressure on private aged care facilities has not been enough to insure this abuse will not happen. Obviously their systems and procedures have also failed. Systemic abuse happens in private aged care facilities and these facts stand true regardless of your thoughts on socialised medicine. You can' pin this on socialised medicine because the problem exists outside of socialised medicine as well. Here's the deal... if you keep your head in the sand and blame everything on socialised health care, regardless of whether the cause is socialised health care or not, you will always fail to address the root cause of issues outside of socialised health care. I know "socialism did it!" is a convenient excuse but it ain't always true.

[Matthitjah]

The difference in the private model is that if your not getting the care that you feel is safe you can choose to place your loved ones in another facility. In Socialized medicine you take what is given. You have no choice.

In the private model if there is malpractice it is dealt with swiftly. Especially in a private hospital. Their reputation and money is on the line. They don't stand for that stuff. There are also systems and procedures in place to keep track of all care.

Hey bro you know I love you, but yadda yadda yadda blah blah blah .

It is absolute documented fact that abuse against the elderly is happening in private owned aged care facilities. And it is an ongoing problem, not a once off occurance. Obviously the market pressure on private aged care facilities has not been enough to insure this abuse will not happen. Obviously their systems and procedures have also failed. Systemic abuse happens in private aged care facilities and these facts stand true regardless of your thoughts on socialised medicine. You can' pin this on socialised medicine because the problem exists outside of socialised medicine as well. Here's the deal... if you keep your head in the sand and blame everything on socialised health care, regardless of whether the cause is socialised health care or not, you will always fail to address the root cause of issues outside of socialised health care. I know "socialism did it!" is a convenient excuse but it ain't always true.

However, and you know I love you too, the burden of the financial strain is upon a loving family in private care and not the heartless Government.

This is happening to the elderly in socialized care because there has to be cost austerity measures under a Government funded system. Those most likely to bear the brunt of theses measures will be the ones most likely to be seen no longer productive or beneficial to that society.

[~candice~]

You've totally missed the point. Sadly, this abuse happens in privately owned nursing homes too. In other words, the problem exists independently of the source of funding. It's not a socialised health care problem, it's a heart problem. Private companies out to make a buck can be heartless to, and this is evidence of it.

[Matthitjah]

I think the thing that most Americans hate the most about the Socialized model is the lack of choice. We lose our freedom to choose and control over our health care choices are given to the Government.

I do get the point of the article. A snapshot of the Socialized system shows that it is rampant with abuses and has been stated. One death is one too many. 800 deaths from dehydration in several snapshot state run hospitals does not equate with sparse abuses in private systems.

A for profit system does not have as it's goal to harm it's clients. That's propaganda. Yes, it wants to make a profit and that it's whole purpose. That's the purpose of any business model. However, it is against the very premise of the business model to go ahead and harm their profit making ability by abusing their clients. They wouldn't last long that way.

I do agree it's a heart problem sis. The problem is that the darkness of the heart will be more readily evident in the Socialized system. Motivation and choice on care will be based upon limited resources that way. There is also no incentive to please the client or even worry about not pleasing them or their family. You can't sue the Government and they're not going to lose your business. Where else will you go?

[~candice~]

I think the thing that most Americans hate the most about the Socialized model is the lack of choice. We lose our freedom to choose and control over our health care choices are given to the Government.

I do get the point of the article. A snapshot of the Socialized system shows that it is rampant with abuses and has been stated. One death is one too many. 800 deaths from dehydration in several snapshot state run hospitals does not equate with sparse abuses in private systems.

A for profit system does not have as it's goal to harm it's clients. That's propaganda. Yes, it wants to make a profit and that it's whole purpose. That's the purpose of any business model. However, it is against the very premise of the business model to go ahead and harm their profit making ability by abusing their clients. They wouldn't last long that way.

I do agree it's a heart problem sis. The problem is that the darkness of the heart will be more readily evident in the Socialized system. Motivation and choice on care will be based upon limited resources that way. There is also no incentive to please the client or even worry about not pleasing them or their family. You can't sue the Government and they're not going to lose your business. Where else will you go?

HA! If only it were the case that there were "sparse abuses in private systems". It's not so. Abuse of the elderly is systemic, and I've seen it with my own eyes due to the work that my mother and my first church does in PRIVATE aged care homes in my local town. It's beyond horrific.

To make this only about socialised medicine is to ignore the abuse in the private system, and I can't in good faith do that just for the opportunity to voice a dislike of socialised health care. I know you hate it and we will never agree. I know that a pure socialised health care system is not ideal, it won't work in practice and it's never been what I proposed (I propose a mixed system). But don't let your hatred for socialised medicine blind you to the abuse that the private system is also committing for a buck. Both are wrong and it shouldn't be ignored because one is subjected to capitolist market pressures and the other is run by the government.

Abuse is abuse, it's ALL wrong.

I gotta get down, I can see Russia from my soapbox.